Religion and lack of Religion in High Schools.

You aren't supposed to put jokes under that sort of scrutiny

I think on principle, at schools and universities and things like that, if there are clubs for religions then on principle it should be okay for people to start an atheist club. I wouldn't join one though. If I even am an atheist I'm not that bothered about it and it doesn't really inform much of what I do, so I just wouldn't be that likely to want to join a club.

If it's just about atheists, as in any sort of atheist, then I do kind of stand by the joke I made but if people still want to try and form a club like that then sure. If it's a group specifically for humanists, or say atheists who have certain political views then it'd probably have a much higher likelihood of working.

 

But joke.... and then serious chat.....
but joke....

...then seriousness...


...then joke.....


This would gets banhammerz on LPU. CULTURE SHOCK.

 

If I want to send my children to a catholic school then it's no one's decision but mine. If I want my kids to be baptised then it's no one's decision but mine. But if I send my children to a public school I expect my kids to respect other religions and vice versa. I'm not a firm believer in catholicism, nor am I a firm believer in any religion but in all aspects of all religions.

But why create a club because you have familiar beliefs? That just reeks of conflict of interest. You may as well just create a "I hate Homework" club and see how many people join. I mean, what's the point of multi-culturism when you're going to go off on your own tangent and create a mini-church of people in a school who will probably end up thinking that health class is bad because contraception is involved? Students will end up beating up more other students for their beliefs and the fact that they joined the Christian club (and guess who did the beating? Atheists!) Teenage life is already hard for them, don't make it worse.


I was in various clubs in high school, including the Computer Club and the Drama Club. Each day to me was an open opportunity to be a) beaten up b) teased about my interests. Eventually peer pressure to be 'cool' sets in. You can't deny the existence of peer pressure either.

 

You can't deny the presence of peer pressure, no but if someone is mature enough they won't give in to it. Come on, I was offered drugs, REPEATEDLY, even on the bus ride to and from school, my friends smoked it, I never smoked it.

And I was in after school programs too, art clubs mostly and I never got bullied for that. In fact it was the one solace I had in elementary school as during the school day I was constantly picked on while after school, I was around more people who had similar interest and less need to bash others for no reason. So, from my own personal experience your observations are wrong. In my experience anyway.

 

First, there's the belief that government should neither further or hinder religion. Since it can't be in the classroom because that's unfair, the students should be allowed to have their religion outside of the classroom, like during lunch. Clubs can achieve that. And no, there's no conflict of interest. The students have no control in administration so conflict of interest doesn't even enter into this.

Not to mention you're missing the entire point of multiculturalism. Multiculturalism does NOT mean "Assimilate or shut up! You are not allowed to express your culture!" Multiculturalism means that everyone can express their unique beliefs and cultures and that, provided no harm to others is being done, it is tolerated. Having multiple clubs on different subjects is the very essence of multiculturalism. The people who are NOT tolerant are the people going around beating people up. Those are the people who should be subject to discipline, and they should be the target of your ill feelings, not the clubs. You have your priorities mixed up.

(Also, Atheists having enough balls as an extreme minority to go beat up a majority group like a Christian? I call shenanigans. Either the atheists were provoked, those atheists have now been decapitated by other students, or your account is wrong).

Furthermore, the entire point of clubs is to make friends with like minded people. You have the unfortunate stance of being made fun of... but you want to get rid of clubs? That makes this peer pressure problem worse because people feel like they're alone, different, and broken. A club signifies that there are other people like you and you can go join them. In minority groups like atheists and others, it can be a time to bond and heal over the harsh peer pressure that the rest of the school is giving them. Peer pressure is there, clubs or not. The clubs eliminate having to go through them alone.

More appropriately, you show that anecdotes aren't evidence. Castiel's fucked up school is nothing like the rest of the planet.

 

Yeah, I know, I was just giving an example. I meant it in no way to conclude to what I said to be any concrete evidence. Just personal experience.

 

wsw

So why create a singular religious group in a public school that recognises all religions? I know I went to one of them in my time and the only group that the admin had put in was for Christians and that was scripture and we only went to it for the main reason it stopped us from going to assembly.

Further or not, even if the government does neither further or hinder religion WHY are there public Catholic and Muslim schools out there specifically for those religions if we're a multicultural country? (Don't get me started on the this) But yet when you go to a country, you're expected to follow their beliefs and their ways, why can't it be the same for the country that you live in. There's some level of assimilation expected from the receiving end.

(The atheist part was a hypothetical situation).

 

I was trying to say that people's personal experiences tend to be all different. That's what I meant. And it's reasonable to point out that yours was different than Castiel's.

I wasn't advocating such a thing, but if they want a multicultural singlular unit, then they can go have one.

That's called an artifact of living in a free country. Private Schools aren't the same as public ones. Private schools aren't part of the gov't and thus don't have the obligation to be completely fair (they have to respect everyone's basic human rights, though). It's their money and they can spend it however they want to.

Going to a country that doesn't respect your differences is not a very tolerant one. That's bad. We are not supposed to me mimicking them. You're priorities are way messed up. You should not be looking at how you can make your country less tolerant. You should be looking at how to get those *other* countries to be more tolerant. With globalization increasing more and more, we need to be able to have dialogs with different cultures in order to cooperate as our cultures inevitably blend more and more. People are just gonna have to start learning and accepting when different kinds of people build a mosque wherever. They have every right as you do. That's the essential nature of equality, and people getting pissy about minority religions are gonna have less and less a place in this world. The only time such an objection is proper is if it places human rights in danger (ie, Sharia Law).

In short, copying other countries for the sake of copying them is not what we want. We want to be better.

Please don't put hypothetical situations in arguments. We could have arguments all day on whether the beft actually go left, but it doesn't matter what the beft do if they don't exist in reality.

 

Different worlds.

I just think it's bullshit that you should go and create your own separate identity by creating a club to suit your religious beliefs, if multiculturalism is already enforced in the school and by that means you really shouldn't have to, if you believe in other religions. Me personally would rather go talk to someone else about their religion or vice versa. I mean, you don't have to create a club to find other people with other interests specifically your religious views. I used to talk to a lot of Atheists back in the day and their version of why the bible is "full of shit" and that was just my usual going to Science routine.

 

While I am from the USA, I think the principle of the First Amendment is a universal idea, and a very well thought out and justified one. It has also stood the test of time in that it's still very relevant. Other countries have since copied it.

 

I'm kind of the same, I guess. I'm just somehow more likely to become friends with people who don't have the same views and tastes as me... I guess I'm drawn to people I can argue with haha.

 

I think school is for education and that the facts about religions shoudl be taught, but this should not extend to clubs - religions already have places of worship for this, they don't need another one!

I presonally find it more scary when schools start to bring creationism in as a 'science' lesson - but thats a whole other can of worms!

 

Religion has the freedom to be practiced anywhere, at least in America, and I think FCA groups and stuff are great. Christianity (and other religions) are a lifestyle, not a secret activity. FCA was pretty chill at my high school, it wasn't 'clicky', there weren't only athletes, it was cool.

 

I went to Catholic school for 12 years, but I did go to public school for Kindergarden. When we had our Winter concert we sang Christmas songs as well as Hanukkah songs. The christmas songs we sang didn't have anything to do with Jesus either. That was 17 years ago, so I don't know if things have changed if not, then I there is still some religion is school.

 

So does the KKK. Just because you have a right to have meetings anywhere, doesn't mean it is right. Nonsense should be kept to one's house.

 

I always like the religious freaks that always come out of the woodwork at Bonnaroo every year. It's the only place I've ever seen Hare Krishna's and Christian's handing out material. I got like 4 books from the Krishna's, but then proceeded to lose them/have them stolen from my campsite over the next 4 days. It's funny because my roommate was a Hare Krishna when he was little, and he's told me a lot of horror stories about them. It's like a creepy cult.

I like this quote from the movie "Big Fish". I might have said it earlier in the thread, or maybe I was high and I wanted to. But, anyway... "It's rude to talk about religion. You never know who you're going to offend."

 

Knowing that the KKK and the Phelps have their religious freedom helps me rest assured that I have my freedom as well. Unfortunately, the legal world is blind: If you have the ability to cripple the freedoms of people who deserve it, then bad people with power can cripple the freedoms of people who don't deserve it. There are always nuts in power and there are always special interests looking to use a loophole intended for one thing to exploit some dubious intention of theirs. The best way to go about it is to not use (or ever allow) the government to fight these kinda of problems for you. That's like using a shotgun to kill ants, and that creates the loopholes the assholes in power will abuse.

Use your own freedom of speech to denounce the KKK, just as they can use their freedoms to preach their silliness. If you don't like what someone says, talk right back at them and expose them for what they really are. That's a fair fight. No need to go crippling anyone's freedoms or have the big bad govt fight your fights for you.

I think what people do not understand is that there will always be stupid people, if not the Phelps or the KKK, than someone else. You are going to have to figure out how to live with these people no matter what, on account that you can really only punish actual crimes. I believe that people have the fundamental right to believe the wrong thing and make mistakes. That condition is to be human. The catch is that they should have to take the natural consequences of their actions and that's why they shouldn't be protected by the government either.

 

I'd be hard pressed to find a more twisted parallel...really? Religion is compared to the KKK now. I guess this is what the mask of the internet can do.

 

You're smart. I like you.


I also just want to say that I agree that creationism definitely shouldn't be taught in science classes, just because it's not science. It's like teaching calculus in English. At best it should either be taught only in RE or Philosophy classes, or if it's taught in Science it should be debunked as scientific theory.