DO NOT CONTINUE READING UNLESS YOU HAVE READ THE BOOKS. THIS THREAD WILL CONTAIN DISCUSSIONS WHICH WILL SPOIL THE SHOW. YOU'VE BEEN WARNED. When I'd first created the discussion thread for the fifth season of Game of Thrones, I'd stipulated no book spoilers. Well, unfortunately, I'd broken my only stipulation in my first reply to the thread, and I'd ended up eliminating the "no book spoilers" stipulation—all because I wouldn't have been able to mention a theory I'd had regarding a scene from the show and its book counterpart. I realized, after a fashion, not everyone who watches the show has read the books; in fact, very few of us show-watchers have read the books as well...yet, I'd continued posting book spoilers, which discouraged discussion of the show, to an extent, I think. Any time someone commented about something from the show, along with their own theories about what might happen next, I'd counter with an argument from the books—which, to be fair...isn't fair. It wasn't fair to non-book-readers, and it wasn't fair to those who've read the books but who'd like to discuss the show separately, as its own universe. I'd like to apologize here for that, because it was my own greed for wanting to discuss the books that may've caused a lot of you to have certain things spoiled you'd have otherwise never had spoiled if it weren't for me openly discussing the books (spoiler tags or no). The show's fifth season ended with a lot of fanfare; the season finale had the highest ratings of any previous Game of Thrones episode. It also ended with a lot of anger, frustration, feelings of betrayal, and a lot of speculation about what's to come in the show's final two seasons. (The showrunners have reiterated, time and time again, that Game of Thrones will only last for seven seasons, unless HBO steps in and forces them to continue the show.) That said, I think now would be a good time to split the discussion threads in half—one for the show, which already exists, and one for the books, which, as far as I can tell, doesn't exist and has never existed. Because it's likely for the show to veer even farther down its current diversionary path from the books, I think it'd be better for there to be two discussion threads; this will allow us book-readers (however many of us there are) to have our own discussions separate from the discussions of the show-watchers, and it'll also eliminate the prospect of having certain elements of the show spoiled if they happen to be brought up in previous discussions about the books. (This is why I'd also stipulated pointing out which book your book spoiler was from. Alas.) I'd like to think we can use this thread to discuss our favorite plots from the books, our favorite characters, our favorite settings; I'd also like to think we can use this thread to discuss theories about the Song of Ice and Fire series, from the Great Northern Conspiracy to R + L = J. Based on what I've seen in the previous Game of Thrones threads, there's much we can discuss regarding these topics, but it's very hard to do so within the confines of a show-only thread. I'm hoping this can alleviate that problem. Again, I'll reiterate: Bear in mind that this thread will contain spoilers from all the books, and we won't be using the [noparse][/noparse] tag in this thread. (Well, we shouldn't have to, at least.) Let's start off with a poll (and probably the only poll that'll exist in this thread): Who do you think will be sitting the Iron Throne at the end of the series? (I've listed the choices alphabetically by their family names where I could.) The list of names I've come up with is...well, it's the most straightforward list I could think of. I've included all the major players who are actively trying to win the Iron Throne—like Stannis, Dany, and Aegon—plus those who may end up winning the Throne without ever actively fighting for it for themselves—like Tyrion, Jon, and Sansa. Of course, I've also included the Others, who may very well sweep Westeros and bring on another Long Night and sit their own Night's King on the Iron Throne (which would be a crazy way to end the series)...and, of course, I've included an option for you to select someone else. Alright, then...let's get to it. Let's discuss the fuck out of this series, which is my second-favorite series behind Harry Potter.
I was stuck between Dany and Tyrion who i feel are the two most likely. But I picked Tyrion because I like the underdog story whilst Dany has a family lineage already. I could see Dany dying somehow eventually to save the world from the Others. Rickon is just meh to me. He hasn't done shit and the best I would expect is him as king of the North. Jon doesn't seem like he'd even want to be King just like Ned. Then there's Sansa which would be my third most likely to be king but eh.
The dragon has three heads. Factoring in R+L=J, Azor Ahai, rumours of Aegon and the three dragons currently in play, I'm expecting a Targaryen party to take the Iron Throne.
I believe there's a theory out there that says something about how the "dragon has three heads" line doesn't mean three separate people, but rather one person with three different aspects. There's been lots of debate over that one. I'll see if I can find a link later. Personally, I think the "dragon has three heads" line does refer to three separate people, and I think it's Dany, Jon, and Tyrion. I don't think Aegon's the real Aegon; if he's truly a Targaryen, I still don't expect him to survive. But I'm one of the few people who like the "secret Targaryen" theories, and along with Jon, I think Tyrion's a secret Targaryen, that he's the son of Aerys and Joanna, and not Tywin and Joanna. In the end, I think it'll be Dany sitting the Iron Throne, as much as I'd hate that, since I don't really care much for Dany.
Oh, I forgot about the Tyrion theory. Wasn't it something like Tywin knew the baby was a Targaryen, and tried to have the baby killed before it was birthed but the poison only killed Joanna and stunted Tyrion? I'd be 100% okay with a Jon/Dany/Tyrion alliance.
Yeah. That's one of the main points of the biggest "Tyrion is a secret Targaryen" theories. I think that's one of the biggest reasons why Tywin didn't have Tyrion killed, or at least held him in a higher regard than what he outwardly portrayed. The Lannisters were loyal to the Targaryens and only joined in Robert's rebellion once Rhaegar was killed and it was obvious that the Baratheons were going to ascend to the Throne. Tywin knew, with Tyrion being a Lannister and a Targaryen, that his name would carry a lot of weight. To the public eye, he hated Tyrion, but I think he viewed Tyrion as so much more than that, despite what we know from their interactions from the books. Tywin could've easily had Tyrion killed at any point, but didn't, because he knew that he's the one who ultimately killed Joanna and not Tyrion. I also think Tywin knew, from very, very early on, that Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen were Jaime and Cersei's children, and not Robert and Cersei's kids; I think he knew all along what was going on. I think that's a big reason why Tywin ultimately didn't have Tyrion killed, because if it came out that the children were actually bastards, Tyrion would have a claim to the throne. That plays in to Tywin telling Tyrion, as his last words, that "you're no son of mine." It was an extremely subtle hint. Now, how we'll find out Tyrion's a Targaryen's another story...and I'm interested in how Martin will reveal that, if the theory's true. I also think Tywin may've had a hand in Aegon's abduction by Varys, if it turns out Aegon's actually a Targaryen and not just a pretender. If you remember, the baby boy was pretty much destroyed beyond recognition; I'm pretty sure Tywin gave The Mountain that order on purpose. That's why I think, if Jon's Azor Ahai, that Dany will win the Throne, because Jon won't want it, as he'll see himself as the protector of the realm in an overarching sense and won't want to run the kingdoms, and Tyrion ultimately has no desire to sit the Throne, so Dany will sit the throne, and Tyrion will be the Hand of the Queen, with Jon as the ultimate protector of the realm as Azor Ahai.
I believe in the end there wont be an iron throne. There will be introduced a much more democratic republic society. And then politics will become more complicated than killing those you disagree with. I feel that Dany, Tyrion and Varys are heading in a trajectory that would allow that sort of outcome. Unfortunately they will all die for their troubles. That will be the bittersweet ending.
That's a good point. I'd quite forgotten that that's one thing that Dany had said to Barristan (I believe), how she wants to, essentially, abolish the feudal system so that everyone lives under the same banner. I think that's an admirable goal to shoot for, but I don't think she's going to be able to attain it in the end. She'll set the foundations, the groundwork for a new sort of republic, similar to what the Romans had, but she won't be around to see it flourish or anything like that. I've also got a bad feeling that a second Long Night will begin some time during The Winds of Winter and it'll be up to Jon Snow/Azor Ahai (one head of the dragon) and Bran (as a Child of the Forest, or whatever he may turn into) to unite the kingdoms of Westeros against the Others, but they won't be able to do it by themselves, and they'll need Dany and Tyrion (the other two heads of the dragon) to cross the Narrow Sea to help them. Once all's said and done, I think Dany will win the Iron Throne, or at least she'll be the supreme leader of Westeros, with Tyrion as her Hand, and Jon Snow/Azor Ahai as the supreme protector of the realm, assuming Azor Ahai doesn't die once the Others have been defeated (which would suck).