Discussion in 'News' started by Derek, Nov 30, 2005.
You said this
I read this quote and thought of a reply to the kid's statement.
Nobody knows who's talking to who anymore. That second comment was not directed at you.
Stupid quoting. *edits*
My bad man! Sorry about that.
I'm not trying to start an arguement here but I think you came to the conclusion from your own opinions. The misleading information is the Singles, Music Videos, and Record Debuts categories. Those are all have to do with promotion. Promotion doesn't make a band better. My example: 50 Cent may have better music videos and sales than a lot rappers but that doesn't make him better. You can even add in the rest of your categories, minus previous band, and it still comes out the same way.
i think the reason the album debuted at a poor position was because of poor promotion -- as already stated. i think with the right combination of songs released, this album could have garnered a lot of sales and/or a lot of respect (respect is possible in mainstream rap, or at least semi-mainstream; look at mos def, the roots, talib kweli, atmosphere, common, and even kanye west).
first off, petrified is a terrible song to release as a single. almost any song on the album would have done better as a single; petrified has no musical structure, the lyrics are shallow, and the chorus sounds like that of a bad limp bizkit song. i always thought 'remember the name' was created for the sole purpose of being the first single; its a perfect introduction for mike to the rap scene driven by a catchy string loop. so if mike's goal was sales, he should have picked 'remember the name'. however, if he was going for respect, i think 'right now' would have been a strong single to start off with. it reminds me a lot of 'always coming back home to you' by atmosphere which in my opinion is one of the greatest hip hop songs ever written. 'right now' has great production, great lyrics, great themes, and great execution. so this would be my personal pick for the first single.
for the second single, if mike is going for sales, 'believe me' is the right choice. very catchy, very poppy, and has a lot of mass appeal. it reminds me a lot of 'faint' in terms of lyrics, structure, and feel. like it or not, its catchy, and that's all that matters when a single is released when your going for sales. in my opinion though, 'believe me' is a poor song overall and 'cigarrettes' or 'high road' would have been a better choice if he was going for respect. i love 'cigarrettes' and think its one of his best songs on the album. however, it's generally not a great idea to follow up with a dark song, especially if the first single was a little bit dark and minor in its own right. that's why i like 'high road' for the second single, because its a complete song with a catchy hook. the chord progression on the piano never really clicked with me, but its a very good song overall -- lyrically and production-wise. so my choice for the second single would be either personally be 'cigarrettes', but realistically would be 'high road'
the last single (i'll assume third=last), should be 'kenji'. period. its the best song mike's ever written, and although its not my favorite song on the album, its got classic written all over it. its kanye west's 'jesus walks' or linkin park's 'breaking the habit'. i love how the rhyme scheme is built around 14/4 time (or 3 bars of 4/4 and one of 2/4 depending on how you look at it), and thought the lyrical themes are executed beautifully. i think the argument that it's too personal to be a single is weak, as mike should share the songs he feels the most passionately about with the most people possible. i think it could really make an imprint on rap as a whole, and could garner mike tons of respect and sales.
this is a tad bit long, but i've been frustrated with the songs mike's chosen or not chosen to release as singles. i really think with the proper promotion, 'the rising tide' could become one of the best hip hop albums of the year, as it in my opinion runs laps around kanye's 'late registration' and common's 'be' and any other mainstream rapper's release. in summary, here are my picks for singles:
sales - remember the name, believe me, kenji. honorable mention - where'd you go
respect - right now, high road/cigarrettes, kenji. honorable mention - feel like home
branden/nickel nine, by the way, the mars volta is much better than fort minor. but that's not a bold statement, as tmv is better than almost any band in modern music right now -- musically, structurally, thematically, lyrically, creatively, any way you look at it. no one with any knowledge of music can deny that, even though it's opinion. however, you failed to mention 'the widow'. whether you like that song or not, frances the mute would have gone absolutely nowhere in terms of sales if it wasn't for the release of that song as the first single. every 12 year old girl was raving about that song for weeks if not months, even though they didn't have the slightest clue what it was about.
I agree completely...but well done to Fort Minor anyway...I think that RTN would have been the ultimate touch to success, i.e. higher up in the charts...it's not my favourite track, because it has gotten boring, but the rap from each person was excellent, especially ryu!
I'm going to look for The Rising Tied on the Euro/Canada/Aussie charts; Believe Me is the first single there, so we'll see the difference.
I've already heard that TRT sold 35,000 copies in it's first week in Australia, and that it's been certified gold. If I find the source, I'll post it in the 'Got News' section.
I would first say that the order in which the singles were released to the Internet should be the way that they were released to the U.S. They should've let RTN blaze the charts, then release Petrified to nab the "club song", and once it fell off, release Believe Me. After Believe Me is done, pull them back in with the major hits from the album: Cigarettes, Kenji, Right Now, and maybe Feels Like Home & High Road. It would've been a surefire route to success.
But someone with FM made a MAJOR mistake with allowing Petrified to be the first single. To recover sales for TRT, FM's next move should be to get Believe Me on the air to make up for lost time. Then, drop one of the big hits, like Cigarettes. Follow it up with Where'd You Go? Then go to Right Now. Then go to Remember The Name. See the pattern? Single, Great Album Song, Single, Great Album Song. It's a good way to give FM credibility and max exposure. Then again, I could be wrong, but it's an idea.
Fort Minor: The Rising Tied is a good album and there's no reason why it shouldn't sell once it gets more exposure. But FM has got to make the right moves.
But remember that the first single in the U.S. is Petrfied that is the worst song in the TRT maybe when the secon single (believe me) gets out the sales go up
six singles? holy shit man, that's a horrible idea.
And Cigarettes is a song with a good message, but it doesn't have what it takes to be a radio/television mainstay. It's just not as catchy as Believe Me or the like.
Remember The Name shouldn't have been a single.
It's fine the way it is. Petrified is a decent song, should catch people's attention because it's catchy but no like much out there on rap radio/television at the moment. Believe Me will do well if they push it because it has the hooks to, well, hook people in.
The last single should probably be Feels Like Home. It just has that "last single for this album" kind of feel.
It doesn't have to be SIX singles--besides, with LP, Meteora had SIB, BTH, Faint, and Numb. That's four. Six isn't THAT much more.
Remember The Name was the song that got many really interested in Fort Minor, so I don't know why you say it shouldn't be a single.
Cigarettes may not be a big mainstream hit, but couldn't it do well with strictly hip-hop stations?
But then, it's almost half of the album.
I think he sould named the album The Rising Tied by Mike Shinoda not Fort Minor.
One of the tracks on Meteora wasn't even a real track--it was Mike grunting while wrecking a computer for a few seconds, so if you count that, LP used 4 out of their 12 real tracks, which is a third of the album. I do agree with the sentiment about not using half of the album, though.
About the six tracks thing--I wasn't literally suggesting that FM use six singles, because it's crazy. I had just figured that if FM was mad successful, they could have one or two more singles than usual, being that there's so much good content on the album that may/may not be considered "singles" material. This way, Mike could show some of the brilliance of TRT as well as its capacity to have singles. So can we please stop discussing that point now?
every way? so they're better at hip hop i imagine... *scratches chin* fo shizzle
lol comparing 4 words of Petrified to the whole only-english part of L'via.. none the less i agree with you but only in the fact that the contexts are two completely different extremes.. TMV not only wrote all their albums while they were stoned but they intricated a whole storyline into their album.. filling their lyrics with completely abstract lines, that (if you had a decoder ) translates into an ingenious story.. FTM and DITC is art, TRT is a project Mike just wanted to do..
no fair.. Mike is just one guy... TMV is a band
have you seen the vid for The Widow.. its fecking aweful.. and since you are stating that TMV is better than Fort Minor in its entirety then you have to put ALL of their vids into play... Believe Me is an amazing vid keeping in mind that its for a hip hop song... Where-as TMV could have done so much for The Widow but ended up with something so lame..
FTM is TMV's third album (if you includ Tremulant) so they had plenty of time to build a fanbase... also state your source when you're throwing around those kinda facts.. i dont want to see you prove yourself but im just saying for future
so say if you took the mind to do that comparison right you shouldve gone with TMV's first album.. Deloused.. which started at #39 on the charts
Yeah its better than 60 but its a little more accurate comparison (and alot less misleading).. plus At the Drive in had been around from the early 90s when they guys were just teens.. LP have been out since the late 90s...
Yeah SOB and Jay-Z... umm but what about Black Thought of the Roots? and John Legend... annnd Common.. oh and all the people that he worked with on the mixtape.. hmm?
Plus Mike said that when it came to collabs he didnt want to just grab what hot at the moment.. he wanted to work with people he got along with and meant something to his career... said that in the video interview on mtv
i think that sums up that section....
since you're asking me... it is debatable.. LP is muchly better than At the Drive in to me.. Relationship of Command is the only album i can listen to..
Keep in mind that this is a solo project.. and TMV is a full band.. Mike did most of the instruments himself and did all the artwork for it.. for one guy, he did pretty good for himself...
TMV is a prog rock and Mike is underground hip hop... if you had compared Mike to another Hip Hop artist i would spare the long reply.. but this is two different genres of music with completely different styles and attitudes towards music.. Its an unfair comparisson and the use of facts to just conclude 4 posts later that its just "opinion" leaves all your facts redundant.. you might as well have just said that you liked TMV better and carried out your way while people scrolled past another useless comment.
LMAO @ someone contesting Branden's argument.
I order the Special Edition and i am waiting it. It's good when FM is rising up in the skys. One part of me wish good luck to FM but one part wants that LP is better than FM.
i think its safe to say that LP will get better sales than FM...
*Peeks in for obligatory post*
Mom, what's sarcasm?
And why is Branden using it?
I dont know about you guys....but the record stores are also doing a poor job promoting this album.....Useually, record stores put new releases front and center at the store entrance, havnt even seen Fort Minor in the New Releases section at all. Instead, what I see at FYE is a huge poster for Green Days Bullet in a Bible with all of Green Days CDs placed in front of it, saying "complete your collection." <<<<< now I know Green Days Label payed for this...but come on. Also, the album is mislabled. Im sure most of us can agree that this is a rap album.....yet its not in the rap section. Instead I see it in the Rock/Pop wtihout an artist label.....now if you listen to mostly rap....are you going to look in the Rock/Pop section..probably not. Of course this is just my personal experience....and I cant completely blame the record stores...but I think this is partially the reason why few people bought this album...but like Nickle Nine said....we should be glad....atleast we wont hear teenies rapping Right Now.
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