Has LP become more centralized?

Discussion in 'Linkin Park Chat' started by MagmaXtreme, Jul 3, 2014.

  1. #21
    LohithMohan

    LohithMohan It's like I'm paranoid...or am I?

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    True. But the band could have played more songs. I'll be Gone, Powerless, Roads untraveled were pretty much meant to be played live. That would be the band's mistake with that album cycle.
     
  2. #22
    lime treacle

    lime treacle You are not alone Über Member

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    It's kinda weird Out of Ashes doesn't have more electronics, considering Julien-K is quite the electro band.
     
  3. #23
    minuteforce

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    Fair point, definitely.

    Agreed - some of the songs hint at 80s rock and synthpop influences but never go very far in that direction at all. I'm sure that they did at one point, though, considering the way Shinoda described the album early on
     
  4. #24
    jdanek630

    jdanek630 Well-Known Member

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    This may be a silly question, but I'll ask because I do not know the answer to it. Are the band the sole deciders as to the composition of the setlists during tours? I ask this because everything they do has $$ implications. Whether a show sells out or not has either an adverse or positive effect on the gross sales. The sales of tickets impact the venue's revenue, the vendors' revenue, the band's revenue, and ultimately - the record label's revenue. Does WB have any say or weight in determining the setlists for tours or shows?

    WB and Atlantic Records are two companies renown for their heavy hands in dictating what artists / bands do or don't do. If the singles are often selected by them, one could argue that the songs played at a show are also selected by them?
     
  5. #25
    jdanek630

    jdanek630 Well-Known Member

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    Original live version of "Let Down": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpSr65SPzCg

    DBS studio version of "Let Down": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjSNbZQZLIM

    I know it's just one song, but seriously - I heard the studio version of Let Down for the first time and was so disappointed by how much electronic influence Julien-K had on an otherwise beautiful song that should have been left alone as a mostly rock / acoustic track. But that's just my own opinion on it.
     
  6. #26
    ChuckCheese

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    Pretty positive that the band has 100% control over what they play every night.
     
  7. #27
    minuteforce

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    I guess that that song and "In The Darkness" are the exceptions. Outside of those songs, electronics don't play a big role on the album at all.

    I actually like the electronic elements more than the big guitars in "Let Down", just personally, because those synth-heavy sections are the more stripped-down ones
     
  8. #28
    Blackee Dammet

    Blackee Dammet Feminism Is My God Now

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    Counterpoint; if Mike's dictating everything, why would they be excited about adding anything? What if they had been for years only to have Shinoda dismiss it? How are you sure it's a case of Mike picking up everyone elses slack and not an overbearing Mike dictating everyones roles and the guys eventually just going along with it? Wasn't it Joe Hahn that wanted Living Things to be some "heavy ass rock songs"? He seemed pretty serious about that a few years back, what happened between that and the finished product?
     
  9. #29
    outcastboy

    outcastboy Sure God's all powerful, but does he have lips?

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    its not, but not playing the songs live is.


    obviously, but what i mean is that chester is a talented guy, not just a vocalist. what he really does in LP besides singing? only helping mike with lyrics from what i can tell. and even his singing is a bit "more of the same" in LP, his talent are wasted in LP, he is one of the best singers nowadays (and since early 2000).

    i actually would like more a DBS or STP album right now than an LP one. even with THP being a month old, i dont even listen to in anymore, most of the songs are boring as hell now.

    isnt WAR the only song that chester made for THP? all the rest was mike?
     
  10. #30
    Lotus

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    This is exactly what I've been thinking about a lot lately and what I've been hinting at in an STP thread. Chester always sounds a hundred times better in anything that he does outside of LP and it does make me feel like his talent is wasted in the band. What annoys me is that Mike is apparently the reason for that. In an STP interview with Artisan Chester stated that Mike is the reason why he sounds the way he does on LP records. For example, he tells him to lose the vibrato, to sing it straight. Does Mike seriously not hear how much better Chester sounds on anything outside of the band? And why is he the one to decide on how Chester sings anyway? Also, why are Chester's lyrics so much better in STP?

    It's not just about Chester though. I wonder how much input the other members of the band actually have. Especially Rob, Joe and Dave. I always hear Mike say that he, Brad and Chester wright the majority of the music, but what about the others? Don't they get to do anything? I mean, Mike even wrote some (maybe a lot) of Rob's drum parts on THP. What also annoys me is how Mike was the one to decide what direction the band would go in with THP. He was writing softer demo's, but he didn't like them, so he decided to trash them and he decided to write heavier music. Where were the others in this process?

    Things like this sometimes make me feel like Mike has a little too much control in the band. I feel like the democratic writing process for MTM (and maybe ATS) went out the window and it's back to Mike and Brad calling the shots.

    I'm sorry if I come across as a Mike hater. I'm not, I like him a lot, he seems to be a really good guy and he's very talented, but to me he does comes across as a bit of a control freak. I also got that feeling from watching interviews with him, where he barely lets anyone talk and even interrupts them a lot.

    Maybe I'm completely wrong about this though. Maybe the others are just a bit lazy (which I honestly can't really imagine) or maybe I just have a distorted view of the band and Mike in particular. But these are things that have been bothering me lately and it made me wonder about the dynamics of the band right now.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2014
  11. #31
    outcastboy

    outcastboy Sure God's all powerful, but does he have lips?

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    i agree 100% with you. this is what i've been thinking about the band lately (since around LT)

    i actually doubt we will hear THP songs live, i thinks its going to happen the same thing that happened with LT and then who knows what they will come up for the next record, if they dont decide to take a break. i hope i'm wrong...
     
  12. #32
    minuteforce

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    The lyrics thing is a little debatable but, otherwise, yes - I get blown away watching Chester performing covers as a frontman for Camp Freddy and singing as Stone Temple Pilots' frontman too. He might hit the same notes in Linkin Park songs but his singing feels so different in that context. It's when he sings outside of Linkin Park that I fully understand his reputation as one of modern rock's best vocalists
     
  13. #33
    Louis

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    This is a tough topic for me, because on the one hand I really do feel as though Mike has dictated the direction of the band for a long time and that it has become more obvious with recent records. It's pretty clear that The Hunting Party was the child of Mike's inspiration, and while the other band members got on board and certainly bought into the idea, it wasn't really their idea to begin with. If it had been, you wouldn't hear about Mike throwing out demos in the first place that would be getting replaced by what we're now listening to.

    On the other hand, you don't really sense that the band isn't okay with it. It seems as though that this is how the band has been for a long time and that they're okay with Mike being "The Glue." Other members of the band have acknowledged clearly that Mike has always had that role. He has always been a driving force, and he has always had a role in the production of the band's records. He's a talented musician who has an ear for certain things, and he's certainly done well this time around in bringing out the best in other band members (primarily Brad and Rob). While you could say that, yes, the band has become very much centered on Mike's mind and matter for what the band makes, there's nothing that necessarily indicates that it is a problem for them.

    I would say though that as a fan it leaves a hole for us, because I think some of the genuinely best moments from the band in their music and in their interviews come from other band members. I always appreciate what Chester, Rob and Phoenix have to say in interviews and yet they don't get a whole lot of airtime. You hear a lot from Mike, and it ends up being the same old, same old. I like being able to hear Chester speak his mind because he is very real and non-filter, and while you may not get the most accurate statements (e.g. what a new album will sound like), you're going to get what Chester is thinking at the time without it sounding rehearsed. You can see it in the music too. Mike said that "War" was a demo that Chester brought in that went largely unchanged. And you know what? I think "War" is one of the best songs off of the album. The lyrics are stronger than most if not all of the others on the album, and the concept is simple. I think it's a real base for the album and yet he wrote it.

    It'd be cool to really see and understand where the other band members contribute when it comes to the structures and musical elements of a song beyond playing their instruments. I want to know how each member of the band contributes creatively, especially keeping in mind people like Phoenix and Joe who are not as present in the way that they used to be. That stuff is really interesting to me, and so for me I guess it is frustrating that Linkin Park has really been fixated around Mike. I wouldn't mind it so much if we got as much from the others as we get from him.
     
  14. #34
    Astat

    Astat LPA Super Member LPA Super Member

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    Another thing to think about is the idea that Linkin Park is just as much a six-person think tank as they are a six-person band. There are plenty of times where certain members of the band may not be physically involved in the creation of a song, but you can bet that they still got to hear that song and give feedback on it before it was ever released to the public. Take a look at A Light That Never Comes, for example. That song was created entirely by Mike, Chester, and Steve Aoki. Yet it's clearly documented on the Making Of videos for that song that the rest of the guys all came over to Mike's studio just to listen to it and give feedback on it. That's why it's not "wrong" to call that a Linkin Park song even though 4 out of the 6 members didn't play a note on it. There have been plenty of examples of this throughout the band's career. There was an entry in one of the old band journals on LP.com back in the Hybrid Theory/Meteora era that talked about how Rob literally didn't do ANYTHING during the entire Reanimation creative process - all the drums on the album were either pulled from the original Hybrid Theory multitracks or created with samples. But Rob was still in the studio when the rest of the band was recording their new parts and doing the final mixes, giving feedback on everything just as much as the other guys.

    It's not really as simple as "Mike is the leader and everybody else goes along with his ideas" when you have situations where guys can legitimately contribute to the creative process without picking up an instrument. If that wasn't the case, we might as well argue that Brad wasn't a member of the band from 2009-2013. :lol:
     
  15. #35
    outcastboy

    outcastboy Sure God's all powerful, but does he have lips?

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    i think they all are ok with this situation, but it doesnt mean it couldnt be better it everyone was more involved with the music. and actually mike is indeed a bit of a "dictator", DBS only exists because he didnt like chester's demos.

    most of LP songs started from mike aparently, so even if the guys make demos, he is the one that decides whats good or not. Not that mike is an evil guy or something. but i dont think the rest of the band is even stimulated to write songs, mike just do most of the work and then tell them what to do.
     
  16. #36
    Lotus

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    That's true, I do not doubt that the others contribute by giving their feedback, but I would like to see them more involved than just giving their feedback on something Mike (or Mike and Brad) created. I know I'm kind of simplifying things right now, I know that the others do a little more than just giving feedback, but it does seem to be the case for a lot of LP's work. I mean, how many times do you hear the guys say Mike came in with this or that. It almost seems like everything always starts with Mike (and ends with Mike). Things have overall worked out pretty well this way, LP creates great music, but I would like to see what happens when Mike takes a step back and lets the others take a little more control in the creative process. Like I said earlier, I feel like Chester's talent is a little wasted in LP and I would like to see him take a little more control in what he does in the band. Maybe if Mike takes a step back from directing his voice so to speak, we would have far more interesting vocals from him.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2014
  17. #37
    Astat

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    DBS doesn't "exist because Mike didn't like Chester's demos," it exists because Chester happened to have some demos that didn't make it on LP albums (and not ALL DBS songs originated that way, either). Chester is a VERY prolific songwriter, he comes up with new songs/song ideas all the time. Most DBS songs originated during the Minutes to Midnight writing period, and there are 3 songs on Minutes to Midnight that are primarily Chester-penned songs - Shadow of the Day, Valentine's Day, and In Pieces. Saying Mike was rejecting everything Chester was bringing to the table around that time is completely inaccurate.

    Mike does not "decide what's good or not." ALL Linkin Park demos are assigned an average score of 1 to 10 based on the ratings of ALL SIX members during the album writing process, and the decision on which songs to proceed with is made based on which songs score the best. You seem to be implying that Mike is always going to favor his own demos. If that was the case, he wouldn't have summarily thrown away an entire album's worth of his own demos early in the process for The Hunting Party when he decided he didn't want to pursue the musical direction those demos had in common.
     
  18. #38
    minuteforce

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    Dead By Sunrise came to exist because Chester was writing songs that both he and the band agreed did not feel right for Linkin Park at the time. This is the same reason Shinoda opted to use some of his straight hip-hop material for a side-project - because he didn't feel that they would work as Linkin Park songs.
     
  19. #39
    Lotus

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    Well, to me the lyrics in Black Heart and Out Of Time for example are a lot more interesting than "Until it's goooone", "You're guilty all the same, too sick to be ashamed" :D

    *Not sure if those LP lyrics were written by Chester, but they seem like they could have been written by him.

    I agree with this whole post :)
     
  20. #40
    Erica

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    Neither of those things is true. At all. If you've ever seen the Making of Minutes, they all talk about the demos they brought in, which added to over 100 demos. Mike didn't make 100 demos, I assure you. And Astat said, Chester had some demos that didn't survive LP's process. In fact I think he might have had them saved specifically for a solo album. Idk where you got anything you've just said. But any insight into the band will prove what you've said untrue.
     

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