Really in agreement with both of you here, on just about everything said. AkirraKrylon's cake reference was probably better than my sports analogy lol. Iopia, seems we agree on a lot of stuff (other than Numb being a top song so I kind of hate you... (just kidding)). I agree it's pretty silly to say you don't like Heavy because it's pop, then say you like In the End and Numb "because they're not pop", but not just because of the pop elements of Numb and In the End. For one, it's because that's just too simple and narrow-minded a response for me, with little backing or support for it, and for two, I've never been a fan of genres and labels in general. So to then take genre/labels and actually kind of... use it against a song... quite literally, in saying something like "Heavy is bad because it's pop"... it doesn't work for me, on any level. It feels like overlooking everything else about the song, lyrics, melody, instrumentals, etc and just solely zeroing in on "It's pop omg no!" and not getting past that or being blinded by it, which is why it feels like a shallow or hollow response in deciding whether you like or don't like a song. To me, mood/atmosphere (apologies if I'm not really finding the best word for that) is a key component to music in general, not just Linkin Park. If I feel a song is able to capture something like that well, i'm more likely to not only like a song, but keep listening to it long after its release. Not to make it sound like it's a hard-and-fast rule for me, but at the end of the day I'd say the songs I consider to be Linkin Park's most timeless stuff - Numb, Powerless, Leave Out All the Rest, In Pieces, Final Masquerade to name a few - to be that moody, somewhat sad or somewhat dark style, vibe, feel, etc. or have captured mood well in one way or another. But as examples of songs I consider timeless that aren't necessarily sad/sombre, I'd look to Faint and In the End as examples, or Castle of Glass, which while I feel it's not completely without "sad" undertone, it's generally not in the vein of some of their sadder stuff. It's funny how they've done it a few times where a song can feel a little sad but feel slightly uplifting at the same time, or at least it mixes in moments of being upbeat, like Shadow of the Day kind of does. Heavy kind of has that going for it, where despite fairly negative lyrics that represent personal problems, the vibe can feel upbeat at the same time, or feel a little bit lighter, with the instrumentation and the way the vocals are sung. I like that style as well. I agree more that Heavy, if under the circumstances you mentioned, could easily fit on Living Things, moreso than on Hybrid Theory. Though I totally get what you mean.