Linkin Park Six

Discussion in 'Linkin Park Chat' started by EastGhost, Sep 6, 2013.

  1. Gibs

    Gibs The Prog Nerd Über Member

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    PikachuFuck has made it quite clear that he thinks that Meteora takes a concept album approach, not saying it's actually a concept album.
     
  2. lime treacle

    lime treacle You are not alone Über Member

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    Agreed. The plain idea actually somewhat... disgusts me. The interludes are completely separate entities. Even "Empty Spaces", and I'm not even kidding.
     
  3. Blackee Dammet

    Blackee Dammet Feminism Is My God Now

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    Explain how. With the exception of Jornada del Muerto (which I actually consider superior to Robot Boy) none of them are really any good, they don't do a great job at transitioning from song to song, they're just... there. They don't really need to be there, and besides Jornada (and maybe WJL) I really don't think any of them add anything of any significance to the album.
     
  4. Derek

    Derek LPAssociation.com Administrator LPA Administrator

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    There is absolutely nothing about Meteora that remotely resembles a concept album in approach, design or sound. It's Hybrid Theory Part 2 (a fact the band admitted to themselves) and it barely broke new ground in terms of music or the band's evolution. It was a copy of their first record and certain songs are copies of songs on the first album. To suggest anything about Meteora is a concept album is laughable at best.
     
  5. Gibs

    Gibs The Prog Nerd Über Member

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    I'm not saying it is. All I'm pointing out is that he thinks it takes that kind of approach, while not being an actual concept album. I personally don't think that at all.
     
  6. Brandon

    Brandon I was Ree's 100th follower on Twitter.

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    Re: Meteora as a concept album - As someone said in the other thread, segueing does make anything a concept album. Many concept albums use segueing, but segueing is not strictly a concept album thing.

    It's like the simple logic puzzle: All Dogs have four legs. All Cats have four legs. But All Cats are not Dogs.

    As far as the interludes on A Thousand Suns go - it's a slippery slope to consider them less than songs or not effective or whatever. I can see why someone who is a big fan of Linkin Park would think that, but listen to the album "The Way Out" by The Books. Is half of that album "not songs"? Is it that lack of lyrics that makes them less? What about Session? Is it the short length? What about Victimized?

    And for the record, I have gone into iTunes simply to listen to The Requiem and Wisdom Justice & Love plenty of times. And I know I'm not the only one.
     
  7. Gibs

    Gibs The Prog Nerd Über Member

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    Yep, I second this. I can honestly never listen to Iridescent without first hearing WJ&L, because honestly, WJ&L holds a real powerful message, IMO.

    Empty Spaces though, that takes interludes to a whole new level. :kappa:
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  8. Andreina

    Andreina Proud Venezuelan LP fan. LPA Contributor

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    It's not about the length or the lack of lyrics, it's about their inability to hold their ground without context. They end up being just random clips of sound, we know in ATS they're not "random" because we've heard the thing hundreds of times, but what about a neutral person? Would they agree? Are the phone interludes between some tracks in Reanimation songs then? But then again, I said repeatedly that IMO I don't consider the interludes in ATS been full songs. That was it.

    I simply don't agree that just because they're named in the tracklist, they're automatically 'songs'. I consider ATS to have 9 full songs, and I doubt I will change my mind on that.

    So back to LP6, I would like to have some great 12+ full tracks on it, no interlude stuff unless they add to those 12+ I mention.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  9. Brandon

    Brandon I was Ree's 100th follower on Twitter.

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    The idea that songs need to be able to "hold their own" without context is an assumption that many people would disagree with. That's a very...consumer-y(?) non-artistic way to think about it. And that's completely fine, you're definitely not the only one who likes songs to be "work" on their own, there's just a lot of grey area. Like I said, WJL and The Requiem "work" for me completely by themselves. Bands like The Books make entire careers out of music like that. And I don't think personal preference should dictate whether or not someone considers something a song vs a lesser "clip of sound." They're all songs, some just don't work for you.
     
  10. Qwerty19

    Qwerty19 Well-Known Member

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    Meh.

    This debat about what's a song and what's isn't is just about how much people want to relativize things. If you want to be extreme, a fart noise can be considered as a song, as every noise ever, since music, at the end of the day, is just about noises "put in order".

    So yep, personnaly I'm fine with anybody considering the ATS interludes as "songs". It's true that litteraly, they can be considered as such. But then I'll agree with Andreina that, songs or not, some of them don't really stand out on their own, namely The Radiant, Empty Space, and Fallout. I just don't perceive the interest to listen to those 3 out of the context of the entire record. Just my 2 cents right there.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  11. Andreina

    Andreina Proud Venezuelan LP fan. LPA Contributor

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    And I think that's a very 'hipster-y' way to look at it then. I've loved everything Linkin Park has done, I LOVE A Thousand Suns. Despite you say it's "fine" to hold a view like mine the way you've worded it comes across a bit arrogant. Whether you intended it or not (and I'm sure you didn't because I know how smart you are), it can be easily interpreted as if I was some sort of peasant and my "pallad" isn't "educated enough" to appreciate the abstractness of the tracks.

    Listening to ATS is indeed a whole experience on its own, I almost can't listen to WFTE without JDM, but wanting an album to have more "full-tracks", with vocals or not isn't less "artistic" or plain "consumer-y", and it's not like it's gonna affect Linkin Park artistic integrity. I think it's absurd.
     
  12. lime treacle

    lime treacle You are not alone Über Member

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    They need to be there. I can't imagine A Thousand Suns without them. My opinion is just different from yours, and that's it.

    On whether they're songs or not, I don't think so. If they were, we wouldn't be using the word "interludes".
     
  13. Anonymous Person

    Anonymous Person You promised me flesh!

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    Linkin Park has always used electronics to varying degrees. They shouldn't ever abandon electronics to make room for guitars because they can go very well together, as mentioned earlier.
     
  14. Broman

    Broman Well-Known Member

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    That of course being subjective, and of course as it has already been stated, most fans outside of LPA don't typically enjoy ATS and consider LIVING THINGS one of their best albums.
     
  15. lime treacle

    lime treacle You are not alone Über Member

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    Every album loses the taste* it has on the first listen. The same thing happened with LIVING THINGS. And it happened with A Thousand Suns as well.

    *That something that is present in the first listens (until you get used to the songs), that you can almost taste (hence my usage of the word).
     
  16. PikachuFuck

    PikachuFuck Banned

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    John Cage's 4:33 is 4 minutes and 33 seconds of silence, which many credible music theorists consider as a song due to it's focus on indeterminate composition, a concept that Linkin Park are utilising on their sixth album through jamming in the studio together. It's no stretch of the imagination to have the viewpoint that interludes are also pieces of music.

    First of all, I never claimed Meteora to be a concept album, only that I held the opinion that it had the partial elements of one.
    Segueing is a concept which has been used heavily in concept albums over the past four decades, if my subjective view on Meteora having partial elements of a concept album for that reason is too personally incredulous for you, then at least be reasonable; you misrepresented my argument.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014
  17. RyRy

    RyRy LPA VIP LPA VIP

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    They need to make money somehow.

    ATS is a 15 song or 52 minute LP record with 9-10 "digestible" parts to it. Just like Broken by Nine Inch Nails is a 99 song or 34 minute EP with 8 "digestable" parts. Just because you don't choose to accept 5-6 tracks of interludes or 91 tracks with 1 second of silence as music doesn't mean it isn't music. Music is whatever you want it to be. A song is whatever you want it to be.
     
  18. Andreina

    Andreina Proud Venezuelan LP fan. LPA Contributor

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    Not exactly. I am sure things like that are perceived as "art" purely because of who made the piece rather than the actual content itself. I can guarantee if you, me, or any low profile act does that exact same thing, it would be laughed off a best.

    But then again, I don't know why are ATS interludes being compared to 1-second tracks or 4:33 mins of silence. I'll never know.
     
  19. Todd

    Todd FLǕGGȦ∂NKđ€ČHIŒβǾLʃÊN LPA Administrator

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    Children, can we please behave now?
     
  20. Brandon

    Brandon I was Ree's 100th follower on Twitter.

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    The bolded isn't what I meant. I'll try to re-communicate what I'm trying to say.

    You don't like the interludes on their own. You don't want to listen to them on their own. You don't think they make sense out of context.

    All of that is perfectly fine. No sarcasm or belittlement here. In fact, I'm right there with you on some of them. I'd almost never listen to The Radiance or Fallout on their own. But I don't think that just because we personally don't enjoy listening to those songs individually means that we should treat them like second-class songs that aren't on par with the "real songs."

    Because someone do enjoy them. I love The Requiem and WJL. Other people really love Jornada (I don't personally but I've seen it get lots of mentions). If some people *do* listen to the interludes by themselves, and find a lot of enjoyment in it, then I don't think me or you or anyone should be able to say that they count for less.

    To me, it's almost like when someone says "Justin Bieber isn't music." Okay, I get that you don't like it, but that doesn't mean it somehow doesn't qualify.

    Trust me, philosophical debates on art are mindbending. Just a year ago I went into the shoutbox with your view on this topic. I said Empty Spaces wasn't a song, and Minus and I think Minute? and others all discussed it and the 4'33" piece was brought up back then too. It's interesting to think about.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014

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