The Lord of the Rings is better than A Song of Ice and Fire, but they were also written for different generations of fantasy readers.
Lord of the Rings is way, way better. Game of Thrones has its moments, though. Maybe if they didn't have so much filler and stopped wasting our time with crap plots. Last episode was great.
Hmm. I dunno. Probably gonna be crucified for it but I think the ASOIAF books are better to me. :X I mean, Tolkien is all about complete complete evil vs complete good and it becomes a drag after a while, since it's always easy to tell who you should root for in the end. I prefer more depth into the lore and motivations of characters and ASOIAF has that in spades. The books anyway, the tv show, hah, not really. Though, I think it's silly to believe that the white walkers are just completely evil, even in the show. We actually don't know any of their motivations yet so we can't say one way or the other if what they're doing is just the worst or if it's for the greater good. I think the show has established already that there is some form of hierarchy in which they submit to, and that even the whights aren't total brainless zombies as per their recollection of the lord commanders whereabouts and the knowledge of the layout of Castle Black as observed in past seasons. Obviously they can plan and have some form of conscious. These aren't TWD walkers for sure. Also btw, whigts and white walkers are NOT the same thing. Just putting that out there. This has already been established in the show, though some people don't understand it or haven't caught on. I don't think it's considered a spoiler. Can't burn white walkers with fire. You need Valyrian steel or dragon glass.
I don't think the books are better as far as the actual writing itself goes. But I thoroughly enjoyed A Song of Ice and Fire far more than I enjoyed The Lord of the Rings because it was easier to read, if that makes any sense. Tolkien's way with the written word's spectacular if a bit cumbersome, which made reading those books a little harder than what I'd expected the first time I'd tried to read them. But that's also because Tolkien was a linguist first and wrote The Lord of the Rings as a way to flesh out the histories of the languages he'd invented (or so the story goes). Martin didn't create any languages and isn't a linguist and so his writing seems more natural and easier to read... although I can't stand when he overuses certain words and phrases, like "whilst" (which is just a super-pretentious way of saying "while" and adds nothing to the word) or "much/many and more" or "little and less," or the way he writes out numbers ("half a hundred," etc.), or even "mummer's farce." But I think that's just because he's tried to use more archaic vocabulary to fit the setting of his story. But a lot of people have claimed Martin's the "American Tolkien" when he's not even remotely close to being as good a writer as Tolkien was. However, The Lord of the Rings movies blow away Game of Thrones in every facet. The closest Thrones has ever come has been "Blackwater" and "Hardhome," and "Blackwater" was the entire episode whereas "Hardhome" was only the last 15 minutes. Anyway. A lot of people have pointed out that dragonglass (obsidian) and Valyrian steel came from the same place: Valyria. There's a good chance both dragonglass and Valyrian steel are imbued with the same sort of magic, and that's why they're both effective against the Others. Spoilers: Sam's father Randyll Tarly owns a Valyrian steel sword. I can see Sam mentioning this to Jon when Jon returns from Hardhome. Then, if Jon sends Sam away (as he does in the books) to Oldtown, I can see Jon imploring Sam to visit his father to ask if he can take the sword back to the Wall. That won't work, obviously, because Randyll hates Sam, so Sam will have to find some other way to get the sword back to the Wall. I can see that being an important plot point for next season, at least near to the beginning. It'll be interesting to see how they attack that storyline.
The Lord of The Rings is a fleshed-out fairytale "for the whole family." A lot of it is plain silly and you're not sure whether to take the books seriously or not. A Song of Ice and Fire is a sprawling monster of bloodily realistic fiction with characters that actually feel real, that aren't ever safe just because they're them, that are nowhere near being "black" or "white." But of course, in the end, it comes to personal preference and impression, and arguing over which one is "better" is futile. (I do know that seems to negate the post I said I was going to make, but that was going to be an expression of my own opinion all the same.)
Yeah, their universes are only similar on a superficial level. The Lord of the Rings is high fantasy through and through. A Song of Ice and Fire has fantastical elements, but it's much more about political intrigue. Which one has the better writing is subjective. Tolkien's writing is very flowery whereas Martin has a relatively leaner, more modern style. For someone like me who doesn't care for ornate prose and tends to shy away from high fantasy, Martin is a much more appealing writer. But yeah, episode 8 was pretty fantastic. It was one of the best examples of the show putting its budget to good use.
Not only that but it deviated the most from the books and now has me truly excited about where the showrunners plan on taking the show as opposed to before where I thought I'd hate all of it.
I agree that Tolkien is a better writer technically and that his stories are easier to read due to the comprehensible prose but I don't agree that his world and stories he tells in regards to The Lord of the Rings and The Hobit are more enjoyable than ASOIAF. Here are quite a few awesome quotes from GRRM which make me admire his writing style. Here is a quote that brings up the point I made earlier, in particular. As for your hidden quote, yes, I agree. I can see that happening. To be honest when Jon killed that White Walker with Longclaw I was sort of afraid for him, if someone saw him. Consider this: there are 60,000 wildlings and one Jon Snow. One of them sees that he has a weapon that will completely obliterate a White Walker general (or whatever the heck he was, I am going to speculate that he is stronger than just a normal White Walker.) and they could definitely band to take it from him whatever the cost. Valyrian steel is extremely rare and valuable... not everyone is going to be able to use it to defeat their enemy. I think if it becomes widely known how powerful it actually is that letting anyone know that you have any could be very dangerous. BTW what in the world is anyone going to do when those whigts cross the ocean? Not for a moment do I believe that they're stranded there forever. That would be really anti-climatic narratively and it just has to be a setup for something. No way 60,000 zombies are just gonna chill on hardhome until the series ends. In other words, Westeros is fucked.
Either I'm misunderstand what you're saying here, or you misunderstood me. I said Martin's easier to read than Tolkien and that I enjoy Martin's writing more than I enjoy Tolkien's writing, but I still think Tolkien's the better writer. Aside from The Hobbit, I thought The Lord of the Rings, while great writing and a fantastic story, was extremely hard to read because of Tolkien's background as a linguist first and a storyteller second. As far as the whole "good-versus-evil" thing, Tolkien's works were arguably the first high fantasy novels (I'm sure there were other lesser-known works before The Lord of the Rings) and so that's just how he wrote them. I agree with Martin that it's become a trope, the whole good-versus-evil thing, but like I said in another comment, they were written for and in different generations; fantasy has evolved – a lot – since then. Hardhome isn't an island. If I remember correctly, you said you'd read the books; if you remember, Hardhome's on a peninsula near Eastwatch-by-the-Sea. They sailed to it so they wouldn't have to cross through the Haunted Forest. The Others and the wights won't sail to the Wall or Westeros; they'll travel through the Haunted Forest and eventually through/over the Wall. But I agree that Westeros is fucked. I'm hoping Tormund and the other Wildlings are able to vouch for what happened on Hardhome and that Ser Alliser doesn't just write them all off, which seems like something he'd do. Then again, it might not matter. Book spoilers: I think Sam might've accidentally convinced Ollie to do what he thinks is right, and I think that's going to lead to Ollie stabbing Jon when he comes back (similarly to what happened at the end of A Dance with Dragons) but none of the other Night's Watch members save perhaps Edd are going to try to stop it, which is going to lead to Edd's permanent death and eventually Jon's revival as Azor Ahai proper. I've read lots of speculation already that the Night's King singled Jon out as Azor Ahai already, given that the Night's King saw Jon obliterate that Other with Longclaw. I think the Night's King already thinks Jon is Azor Ahai reborn and that Longclaw is Lightbringer. That's why he made it a point to raise the dead in front of Jon's eyes, to show him the power he wields. That's how I see it, anyway. All I know for sure is that the next two episodes are going to be absolutely insane at the Wall.
Yeah, I think we got a bit confused. I agree with you about Tolken/Martin. That's actually a good point about the forest, I read through all five books in a very short time span so, I forget some things sometimes. About book spoilers. I dunno. I think I am going to be disappointed if Olly kills Jon. I know it's been set up, it is SUPER obvious. I mean in the books it was actually about keeping true to the Night's Watch's ideals and there was an entire plot of groups of betrayal. In the show Olly just seems to be pissed about what the wildlings did to his family moreso than protecting the realm from them. I mean, if Olly goes around trying to convince other members that Jon needs to die that is serviceable but if it's just gonna be him stabbing Jon and Allister there as witness and refusing to save him, that's gonna be really disappointing to me. I think Mel just reviving Jon is much too predictable in the books. I think she'll have something to do with it perhaps but I believe that in the books Jon in his body could stay dead for real. I mean he'll not be dead/dead but his body won't be be saved for long or that it'll be too much of a burden to stay in that body. Maybe Mel revives him and he discovers that his body is severely handicapped so he'll decide towarg into Ghost and will have to deal with the moral and ethical dilemma of deciding whether or not he could warg into another living humans body.
Book spoilers: I think that's exactly why the showrunners will have Ollie be the one to stab Jon: He's not doing it out of a sense of duty, but out of a sense of betrayal, in that he thinks Jon's betraying the memory of his family to protect the Wildlings. In that way, Ollie's breaking his own Oath to the Night's Watch by caring more about his family and what had happened to them, rather than the Night's Watch itself. I don't think Ollie's going to ask anyone to help him. I think he's noticed that most of the Men of the Night's Watch don't like Jon, so he's going to do it out in the open and he's going to assume they'll "have his back," so to speak, and they won't stop him from murdering Jon. Ser Alliser won't stop Ollie from doing that, since he's hated Jon from the get-go. Bowen Marsh was only introduced this season (for some stupid reason; I don't know why he wasn't introduced in season one like he should've been), so it'd be kind of odd to have Marsh be the one to stab Jon, since he hasn't been around long enough and we don't really know a lot about him at this point. On the other hand, I could see Ser Alliser being the one to kill Jon after claiming the story of the Battle of Hardhome wasn't true, even though hundreds of people are witnesses, including the Night's Watchmen who made it away from Hardhome with Jon (including Edd). So I think it could go either way at this point: Either Ollie stabs Jon, or Ser Alliser stabs Jon. As far as Melisandre's concerned: She's ridden South with Stannis and his army. In the books, I'm fairly certain she remains at Castle Black, which is why a lot of people just assumed that she'll revive Jon in her fires by sacrificing Shireen (who also remained at Castle Black with the Queen). It's obvious the showrunners have a different intention here, so it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. As for warging, I don't think Jon has enough control over it to understand that's what's happening, that he's warging into Ghost; I don't think he'll be able to warg into Ghost at this point, in part because the stabbing took him by surprise, and that he's never had any practice warging willingly. But in the books, I think Melisandre will sacrifice Shireen to resurrect Jon and Jon will become Azor Ahai; in the show, I've got no idea what'll happen. That'll be a wild to see.
In the context of the show? Maybe not. But it was unexpected as fuck, it was very well done, and in the context of the season, it really was that good.
None, so far. Read the spoilers at your own risk. Book spoilers. A lot of the events happening on the show now are streamlined versions of the same events from the books, but as other plot lines have been removed for brevity's sake, the characters from those plot lines have been added to other plot lines in which they were never a part. As an example, Tyrion and Jorah haven't met with Dany yet, and are both currently in the employ of a sellsword company, after spending time in the presence of Prince Aegon, who I'll mention again in a minute. As another example, Sansa's still in the Vale, and the marriage plot line in Winterfell's significantly different, with the Boltons attempting to pass off Sansa's friend Jeyne Poole as Arya as a way to rally the northern lords to their cause. But the northern lords know she's not Arya (see: The Grand Northern Conspiracy) and Stannis knows, too, and Stannis has sent Davos off to find Rickon and Shaggydog. And then, the entire Dorne plot line with Jaime and Bronn never takes place. Bronn stays at his castle (if I remember correctly) and Jaime's in the Riverlands, trying to get Riverrun to finally surrender. The Dorne plot line's completely different, and also involves Prince Aegon across the Narrow Sea; and Prince Aegon hasn't even been mentioned this season, and I highly doubt they're going to introduce him next season, which means his character's been cut completely. He's alleged to be the Prince Aegon whose head the Mountain dashed against a wall, but thanks to Varys, Aegon had been "switched out" prior to that happening, as it's implied Varys knew the Targaryens would all be slaughtered, and so set in motion the events that would allow him to spirit Aegon away from Westeros and into Essos where he'd be safe and could be trained up as a proper lord and king. But it's also unclear whether or not he's actually Aegon, or a pretender Varys has been using and passing off as the real Aegon. Those are the biggest deviations that I can think of at the moment, not counting what happened at the end of "Hardhome." But the show hasn't overtaken the books quite yet. By the end of the season it'll pretty much match up with the end of the books. Next season's when shit'll get crazy.
Tonights episode has been on Dish on demand early. Spoilers are out there. Be warned. I will say one thing, it is not a spoiler. But still invistags NOPE Nope. Nope. LOL no way. Fucking D&D.
Goddamn! That ending! Been waiting for a moment like that from season 1. But fuck Khaleesi for totally being like "Fuck you guys I'm outta here" edit: Seriously though, how is it that there is so little protection around Dany? She is the frickin queen and there were barely any Unsullied to protect her when shit went down. This type of lazy writing has plagued this season in patches.
I watched the episode again. Dany's sequence was the best, by far, but the entire episode was excellent. The next week's going to be practically unbearable.