The Athiest Delusion

Discussion in 'Serious Chat' started by Tomi, Dec 7, 2006.

  1. #41
    the enigma

    the enigma The Routine Scar

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    By the way...Stof mentioned that handicapped kids get killed in certain religions because they'd dishonor the family.

    Well, that happened every where, no matter the religion. Way back in the day, your kids actually worked for their food. Having a mouth to feed that didn't contribute to the work was too much to handle, thus the child didn't stick around. It was something that everyone had to do. I assume that the dislike of homosexuality came about in much the same way. When you don't have a large population, it's important to have children to carry on your legacy. If you are gay, and therefore unattracted to the opposite sex, is less likely that you'll have offspring. Over time, the little things like this went into the religion, and possibly into amendmants to the holy scriptures.
     
  2. #42
    miny_girl_LP

    miny_girl_LP wow the dark side has cookies!I'm there!

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    interesting......hmmm i never looked from the point of view he had but i'm gonna stick to my atheism and that's that.
    But it was fun watching it!I lol all they way through.
     
  3. #43
    Luke

    Luke Mind Your Manners. LPA Addicted VIP

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    At this time I'd like to bring to everyone's attention a line in a song by Trivium that sums it all up for me: ''Behold you fellow man through centuries of control, adhearing to a decree of a manufactured god''

    Manufactured is the key word. Each of the holy books in all religions have been re-written over and over again over time. One damn passage different in the Bible or the Quran or whatever could have re-shaped an entire religion. The fact of the matter is that no religion promotes violence, it's a quiestion of people acting out of what they think would honour their religion but in actual fact could completly go against it - it's a matter of interpretation and people such as those who kill people with handicaps and deformaties as an act of religion have gotten it all wrong and in my opinion have gone against what their religion stands for.

    But that's the sad fact about it isn't it, because it's categorised under a religious act and carried out in a prodominantly religious country it's automaticly fine. Does this mean that if a religion that did promote violence that people would be allowed to run riot through streets and kill whoever and whatever they wanted?

    Furthermore I find it absolutely ridiculous that in the 21st century we're actualy talking about this kind of crap. I say live and let live and don't look your nose down on anyone who believes something different to you (as long as it's a matter of personal faith).
     
  4. #44
    User Name

    User Name Angry Marines. Always angry, all the time. >:C LPA Super Member

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    The job of a scribe is to reproduce documents on a new set of paper so that the words that are contained within the old set will continue to last. In the case of the Bible, each translation that you see today (New Living Translation, New International, King James, New American Standard, etc.) were translated directly from copies of the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts that compose the Old and New Testaments.

    If there was any discrepency between the old and new copies, it could be cross-referenced and checked for any errors.
     
  5. #45
    Zakrisk

    Zakrisk Smoke weed.

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    True in some respect. The bibles we have today have more errors in them than there are words. The thing is that the scribes reproducing them often added things they liked, were very bias and had a predetermined will in scribing, and alot of them were even uneducated, and made several spelling errors and others.

    The fact is that we don't have have a full copy of any of the New Testament books until the 4th century, and therefore we don't know if they were changed or not. The church was very very very big on changing things in the Bible and the doctrine, and so I don't believe you can rest assured that the Bible translations are correct. There are errors of translation to conclude things in the Bible itself, and so I don't think you can trust any of it.
     
  6. #46
    Todd

    Todd FLǕGGȦ∂NKđ€ČHIŒβǾLʃÊN LPA Administrator

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    Back then, the church would throw you in jail for saying that the Earth revolves around the sun, I can't imagine what they would do to anyone who said that something in the bible was wrong.
     
  7. #47
    User Name

    User Name Angry Marines. Always angry, all the time. >:C LPA Super Member

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    Well, yeah. That's what happened when church and state mixed.
     
  8. #48
    Dean

    Dean LPA Addict LPA Addict

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    I've just watched a tv programme that jogged my memory back to some of my History lessons earlier in the year, and Mao's government was atheist. If I remember correctly the Great Leap Forward resulted in the deaths of quite a few people, although that wasn't to do with religion, but his Red Guard also attempted to condition people who followed religions, as well as capitalists, people who were successful academically, etc. An even better example of that would be Stalin and Lenin but no one tends to give a toss about the non-Nazis they killed or persecuted, pretty much because of the battle of Stalingrad. Pol Pot and Hitler may also have been atheists, I think. If I was to use Todd's reasoning I could go back a century or two to the Jacobeans, and Darwin's theory of evolution, which inspired Hitler's eugenics policy.
    Bear in mind that the only parts of that paragraph taken from that programme were the mention of the Jacobeans, who I didn't have a clue about before, and eugenics, which I did know a little bit about.
    I made a mess of my last couple of posts, huh. Sorry Todd for saying you were up yourself, if you were actually offended by that. :p
    Oh, and Luke, scientific theories are rewritten and replaced all the time, just like scriptures.

    Just to set it straight, I don't attatch myself to any particular religion, and I don't really have a problem with most people following any of them, it's just certain dogmas that annoy the hell out of me, as well as when atheists are just as narrow. You can't prove that God exists, just as you can't prove that he doesn't. If there is a biblical God, and it isn't just the way people interpreted alien visitors that advanced them in the stone age or whatever, he could be above science, what with him being omnipotent and all that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2006
  9. #49
    Zakrisk

    Zakrisk Smoke weed.

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    The Biblical God doesn't exist. I believe that's been practically proven. All people trying to twist things to allow him are apologetics doing a laughable job.
     
  10. #50
    Dean

    Dean LPA Addict LPA Addict

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    I didn't say I believe in him. I'm just open to the possibility, which I think there is. Like I said before, if there was some omnipotent being out there, it would probably be above science. How exactly has it's nonexistence been proven? I'm not questioning whether that's happened, just curious.
     
  11. #51
    esaul17

    esaul17 antichrist

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    There is a difference between an atheist doing a bad thing and a religious person doing a bad thing BECAUSE OF their religion.

    And science is strongly supported fact. It isn't an arbitrary set of beliefs people follow and kill for.
     
  12. #52
    Zakrisk

    Zakrisk Smoke weed.

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    I do think that it should be taken into account. For some reason most scientists I see defending atheism talk about how improbable an intelligent designer would be. But, of course, that is the point. The fact is that the only real 'evidence' we have for the Biblical God is the Bible, obviously, and so far we've really found out it's not very accurate. You would think that creator of such an amazing universe would be a little more intelligent. The God of the Bible certainly is a very unintelligent being.
     
  13. #53
    Dean

    Dean LPA Addict LPA Addict

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    I didn't necessarily mean the actual God from the Bible or any holy book. :p I just meant a God in that context, one that created the universe and so on. I don't think it's existence has been disproven, and chances are it won't be proven and you'll only find out the truth upon death.
     
  14. #54
    esaul17

    esaul17 antichrist

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    Yeah. It is just really unlikely God exists. REALLY unlikely.
     
  15. #55
    Ant

    Ant Ambient

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    Well said, Omar (on the second page).

    I'm a Christian, but the video is amusing. Not amusing in the same sense you guys see it, just amusing in that some people actually do use that logic to both (a) support Christianity, and (b) to disprove Christianity. I don't have a problem with anyone who's atheist or agnostic, but anyone who feels the need to shove their beliefs down the throat of others can shove it (to put it mildly and keep my post terse; and, yes, I include Christians in that comment).
     
  16. #56
    Zakrisk

    Zakrisk Smoke weed.

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    I disagree that you can use logic to support Christianity. In what way? I have never seen it, and I've been dealing with the subject for a long time now.
     
  17. #57
    Ant

    Ant Ambient

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    First of all, congratulations on completely misreading my post. I said "use that logic" as in the "logic" used in the movie. I never implied anything more than that. Secondly, your arrogance on the matter of religion (or your belief in the lack of any 'true' religion or anything along those lines) indicates that no matter the argument, you wouldn't believe it.

    Just as some Christians, no matter the argument, won't buy into atheism.

    It's stupid involving yourself in an argument that's not winnable, but good luck to you, sir.
     
  18. #58
    Omar

    Omar Administrator LPA Super Member

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    I don't believe one can necessarily rely on logic to deduce the existence of God (none of the world's brightest minds could), however, logic is highly essential in developing guidelines in which to live your life. No religious text will cover every topic and appropriate behavior, hence, you must reason (in accord with your beliefs) how to behave. Logic is the glue that holds all prominent religions together, and seperates them from those who operate on a few erratic principles.
     
  19. #59
    Zakrisk

    Zakrisk Smoke weed.

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    Well, I definitely don't think I approach religion with arrogance. Being a Christian my entire life and still attending church every Sunday and being involved in all the Sunday School classes that I possibly can be a part of, I'd say that I have a pretty open mind to it all and have dealt with almost every argument in the book. I even once had a popular thread in this forum where I was supporting Christianity, so I have to say you're wrong there.

    I did misread you, and I apologize, but it wasn't really in defense of my position or anything that I said it. I was just stating that I don't think you can use logic to defend Christianity, and I don't think those arguments are very logical, either.

    So it was sort of relevant. I don't think that the 'logic' you said Christians use to support Christianity that is used in the movie is actually logical, and so I don't think my post was too far off.
     

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