Discussion in 'Linkin Park Chat' started by AkirraKrylon, Jun 9, 2014.
I know everyone has an opinion & has different taste but yeah I agree with you.
I feel some songs are like improvised, but they are all good in their way.
Note that Chester improved his voice on this album: I love that
Mark the graves: I love those screams, i can feel them inside of me!
For the instrumentals 10/10.
Honestly way too lazy to type out a full review, but after 3 listens, this blows both Living Things and M2M out of the water, and might very well beat out A Thousand Suns. This is the LP album that I wanted after Meteora
I'm pretty sure I can safely say it tops the list of "LP Albums" for me. It's incredible.
After multiple listens, I can say that I don't dislike this album anymore...
Were the recycled riffs and chord progressions on GATS-Wastelands-ALITS intentional, or did someone just run out of ideas?
This is a few weeks too late, but after giving the album proper chance and listening to it for good 20-30 times I have to say this is absolutely the worst LP album to date (and that included Recharged). The album just seems terribly forced and creatively blank with any presented problem being solved throwing heavy riffs or screams at it. The album is such a huge step backwards and exactly the kind of album I'd have hoped LP would avoid making. I'll try to break it down a little bit.
The album is, obviously, meant to serve as a heavy "bring rock back" type of album. I think at the basic level, this is a very good idea from LP. The problem is that it seems as though they forgot how to write these type of songs. Having spent 3 albums trying to be "heavy without being metal" and succeeding (in my opinion) it must have been very hard to get back try to do traditional heavy rock songs. And let's be honest, most fault here probably lays with Brad who couldn't write a guitar solo, for example, to save his life. His riffs are ok but only that and even with that it seems like he can't reproduce them live (from what we've heard from GATS). Further, Mike and Brad as producers seem to have this huge obsession with playing those riffs for a prolonged periods of time for no other purpose than to "make it heavy" (as evident in MTG and GATS). On the other hand Rob has stepped up his game tremendously and has to be acknowledged as a shining beacon on this album. His performance is great and carries many of the songs.
Once again this seems to be a huge step backwards to the HT or Meteora days of angsty lyrics. The lyrics are, for the most part, atrocious. This is evident from the very beginning with KTTK and Chester's chorus which is one of the most cringeworthy things since "Take me out of my fucking misery". Which is a shame cause the chorus has a nice melody that could have been used for better things. Mike's "tough guy" rapping comes off as incredibly lame and overdone after LT and ATS. The lyrics themselves in his rap verses are also quite awful, even if you do like the tough guy style rap. I would say FM and MTG are probably the only songs with solid lyrics on this album. ALITS maybe too, but "give me back what's mine" isn't exactly a much of a move forward from the HT days of "shut up when I'm talking to you". This album does have one of the best rap verses on an LP record though, Rakim's verse.
I think this is another example of LP trying desperately to make a heavy album without understanding it too deeply. Chester is so underutilised it hurts. All he does this album is scream. That's it. He doesn't try to hit the notes, to sing, he's just told to scream. ALITS is the biggest offender with this. Mike's singing is fine, but sometimes I wished it was Chester singing instead. CHester can still nail it when he's given a chance like in FM. Mike's rapping style is pretty good I actually enjoy the flow of his verses (apart from the "five star general" part in AFN since he throws out rhyming structure and the flow out of the window). I would like him to go back to the old HT/Meteora style as well sometimes though. ALITS reminded me of it a bit.
Now to review the songs individually and quickly.
Keys to the Kingdom- A sold opener and pretty energetic song. I feel like it's a bit like a longer version of Victimized. Having said that the chorus just ruins it for me. I wanted to turn the song off immediately after first hearing "I'm my own casualty/ I fuck up everything I say". 6.5/10
All for Nothing- Mike's verses have a nice swag and Chester's "All for nothing/all for nothing" is nice but this song doesn't really do much memorable stuff. Altogether quite forgettable. 5/10
Guilty All the Same- Waaaay too long for what it is. Chester has 2 short verses, a chorus that is sang almost like always hitting the same note and 1 rap verse. It doesn't need to be 5 and half a minutes long. Sure the intro is nice but it overstays its welcome. It's almost like LP thought this was their heaviest song and wanted to make sure you damn /well knew it was heavy. (hint, it's not their heaviest song). When you compare it to other long heavy rock songs this is really could have been 3 minutes. 7/10
The Summoning- Nice interlude.
War- I actually like it but it's super unpolished. Chester doesn't only scream but actually tries to sing this one. There's not much happening in the song, but it's a nice high tempo punk song. 7/10
Wastelands- I gave this song shit when it was first released through the live performance. Since then I come to appreciate it as the song gets better halfway through Mike's first verse when the electronics in the background kick in. The chorus is uninspired and once again sounds like Chester hitting the same note over and over. But it's your typical Bleed it Out/Lie, Greed Misery LP song. 6.5/10
Until It's Gone- I really enjoy the transition from Wastelands to this song and I appreciate the drums here more for that. The song is typical LP mid-tempo ballad. I do like Chester's singing on this one though, especially the "whoah" parts. The lyrics are really creatively bankrupt though, with the repetition of a well known cliche. There are some hidden gems lyrically here like "finding what you've got sometimes, means finding it alone" which is better than 90% of the album but that's balanced out by "something made my realise that I was wrong". 7/10
Rebellion- I think this song is a nice evolution of Castle of Glass. I like the lyrics and how it changes from "I" to "we" once Chester starts singing. I always liked Chester and Mike harmonies when chester is the second vocal, because he does it so well and you hear two distinct but complimentary voices. The guitar is pretty amazing. The only thing that's holding this song from perfection is the lazy LP bridge of "let's shout and shout before the final chorus". 8/10
Mark the Graves- The song is pretty nice and it's kinda the direction I would like longer, rock-heavy LP songs to take, but it seems like it runs out of steam and ideas halfway through. After the first two verses are sang and the chorus kicks in the song seems to be really just repeating itself. The chorus is always way too simple for it to happen. When you have a 4 and half minute song you can't have 12 lines of lyrics. That's just a huge waste. 7/10
Drawbar- It's a nice little instrumental but really more of an interlude than anything else. The song never builds into anything big and it's more like a longer version of Wake. 6/10 (although I like it much more than the score would suggest, but it's definitely not better than the songs I've scored 6.5 and above)
Final Masquerade- Best song on the album. Ironically the one that the least heavy. This is a song that was just written without any need to make it heavy for the sake of being heavy and it's just its own thing. I think this is the best ballad LP have ever written. The instruments are really nice in the background and Chester gives one of his best vocal performances in years. The man practically carries the whole song by himself. The lyrics are also quite good and much more grown up in the way they talk about heartbreak. Both Chester and lyrics complement themselves very well and from the very first "tearing me apart with the words you wouldn't say" I could tell this was going to be an amazing song. 9.5/10
A Light in the Sand- when I heard the first verse, followed by the guitars and then the second verse I literally said there is no way this song won't end up being epic. Well I was wrong. The song is held back once again by the need to make it unnecessarily heavy through Chester's chorus. After a few listens I got used to it, but it took a while. Also the lyrics to the chorus are much less mature than than the lyrics Mike sings or raps. The "solo" was pathetic though and it was only saved by Chester's screaming at the end (here I thought it complimented the song well) with the guitars in the background. I did love that moment in the second verse when Chester comes in in harmony with Mike. Also Mike's rapping is quite nice. 8.5/10
My overall LP rating:
ATS>LT>Reanimation>MTM>Meteora>HT(because I heard Meteora before HT so HT, to me was the rehash that Meteora was for everyone else)>Recharged>Collision Course>THP.
i agree with pretty much everything above, i actually like the album a lot, but it feels rushed and forced in a direction exactly like Living Things (toolbox/upbeat/firecracker)
the lyrics are awful, the vocals are uninspired, the heaviness is forced and exaggerated.
GATS as an example sounds like a bad demo, mixed badly, awful vocals, bad lyrics(rakim's verse is great), and it didnt need to be that long.
one thing that i miss in this album is that "dark" element that some heavy LP songs have, THP is heavy for the sake of being
heavy. guitar riff, shitty solos and screams everywhere. it doesnt inspire in me any feeling, even the songs that i really like
i dont think i ever said this before, but its annoying to me how the band (mike) change his mind completely suddenly. after making an album like ATS he decides that he wants to go back to the 36min long-12 songs-1 instrumental album-3min long songs, like HT and meteora, decides that he wants to use the "toolbox", make fun songs to play live and blablabla.
and then half the album never gets played, the songs that got played are already out of the setlists, its almost like LT never happened.
because mike now hates pop-rock, he hates radio friendly rock songs, he hates basically his whole discography. now he wants to bring rock back, and be badass, he wants solos and punk influenced songs, so he makes an rock album with guitars all over the place, screams and dumb agressive lyrics. whats next?
dont get me wrong, i love how very album is going in a diferent direction, i like LT and THP alot. but i doubt that LP will play most of THP songs live, songs that just like in LT, where made for live performances. how long until the band decide to collab with rihanna or try to bring grunge back or something like this? i wish they were more consistent with their ideas, i think the music is suffering with this whole thing.
they need more time to make the albums. MTM and ATS are perfectly crafted, even if you dont like the music, no one can deny it. LT and THP are rushed. the bad lyrics, formulaic songs, the similarity between GATS and wastelands chorus, and the ALITS heavy part that is a clear copy of victimized and GATS prove that they could make these albums much better if they used more time and if they didnt change their minds and forced themselves into a different path after every year.
I don't think you guys have looked into the lyrics and by no means understood them if you think they have the same teenage angst as their first two albums
Like seriously you couldn't be more wrong.
That is like saying all the interludes and speeches on ATS is without a purpose and just serves as filler.
There is a huge different between:
"Shut up when I am talking to you"
"Tossed the keys to the kingdom
Down that hole in my eye."
"I wanna feel, I wanna heal,
Like I'm close to something real"
"The light on the horizon
Was brighter yesterday
With shadows floating over
The scars begin to fade"
Even songs like Until It's Gone(while being a cliche) isn't angsty.
I honestly hated Mike's rapping verses on LT because they just felt misdirected and without a purpose I think his vision with his rap on this album is much more clear.
The album is about Anarchy, War, Rebellion, love and loss.
All these things could be seen as metaphors for them to "go to war" with the radio standards and making a heavy album because that was what they wanted to make.
But it could also tell a story about people going through it all, like the characters we meet on songs like ALITS.
I personally see this album as a prequel(or a sequel I am not sure yet) to ATS lyrically(Yeah didn't see that one coming huh?) as I think that album was supposed to be Post-apocalyptic right?
So this album is about all the shit that happens before the bomb is dropped(literally.)
KTTK: WOW. I knew this was going to be a heavy song based on Derek's initial impressions, but I was not prepared for the energy (=/= heavy) of the song. Chester's vocals and the guitars have the same vibe, which is actually rare for LP (ex. Given Up sounds happy with instrumentals, but Chester is singing about wanting to kill himself).
AFN: I found this song generic on the first couple of listens, but it grew on me big time after successive (and louder volume) listens. Page's voice sounds amazing, that along with the instrumentals give this a very throwback rock vibe, in a good way. The ending interlude of the song sounds like Mike and Brad sharing an intimate moment ("put the heavy shit in here?")
GATS: I've tired this song out from the multiple listens before the album came out. Still a good song, but I usually skip it right now. It does transition very well from AFN rather well though.
The Summoning: I don't understand this song, it has no skeleton, and just feels like a mashup of different LP songs. Mike did tweet that it was supposed to be a ear cleanser before War, so I guess that's understandable.
War: Another WOW. This is Chester's best vocal delivery on the album. Pair that with the ballsy punk-rock guitar riffs and solo and what you get is a short but awesome song.
Wastelands: Another song I tired out pre-album, but I think it sounds really cool juxtaposed against War. I love the bridge where the instruments get really soft.
UIG: This song makes a lot of sense in the album rather than as a single. By this point in the album, there is a serious need for a slower song so that you don't get tired. I love how the tribal drums at the end of Wastelands is basically the drum beat in UIG verses. My favorite part is the end of the first verse where Chester harmonizes with two or three different vocal parts and the instruments fade out.
Rebellion: This song is awesome! Daron's signature is all over the song, especially at the start of the song. It's also a fun song to play on guitar.
MTG: This is my favorite song on the album and one of my top three favorite songs by LP. I love how it shifts from aggressive to mellow and back without sounding awkward. Another song that's fun to play on guitar as well. This also has the best chorus in the album sonically.
Drawbar: This song is misunderstood by the public I think. Ignore the fact that Tom played guitar in this and it instantly becomes pretty cool, it's kind of like a sequel to Session in vibe. There are parts of the song in the beginning that feel very classical music.
FM: A pretty solid track, although nothing to get wowed by. The chorus sounds really familiar, anyone want to clue me in into what it sounds like? Funny enough, the overall feeling of this song reminds me of Spring by Rammstein. That's a compliment from me, because I really like that song.
ALITS: I know I'm in the minority, but this is my least favorite song on the album. This is the only song that feels heavy for the sake of being heavy, and long for the sake of being long. The chorus sounds extremely cheesy, and the instrumentals do not feel inspired. I think the fact that it sounds like Victimized does not help it either.
Overall: 8.5/10. THP is my second favorite Linkin Park album after ATS (which would get a 9.5/10). For me they delivered on their promise on a rock inspired heavy album. I realized how much I miss this kind of music in modern rock, and have been listening to song old rock (System, Metallica, and RATM to name a few) as a result. I do worry about the staying power of these songs, since they are sonically so simple. I feel like it might drop is value after awhile like Meteora did for me (which is now my least favorite LP album). For right now though, I can't get enough!
"Yes I’m half anglo / half fried panko"
OOOH I GET IT!
I honestly don't get that line XD
Anybody mind explaining that to me or is it just as ridiculous as it sounds?
EDIT: Oh I get it. Mike references his heritage, being a half Japanese and half American
there's a difference, but its not huge, i dont think the llyrics are angst, but the suck anyway. theres no meaning in "Tossed the keys to the kingdom down that hole in my eye", even less on "I’m my own casualty I fuck up everything I see" this is as bad as HT/meteora lyrics.
when i started listening to LP, i could relate to "i wanna feel/heal" even if its not a good lyric, but KTTK is pretty much meanless. and even if mike's idea on UIG was good, the chiche still there.
and this album is not related to ATS. THP is not a concept album, or meant to be related to ATS, you are looking too far into it. War and Rebellion are the only songs that are about war and rebellion, the rest of the album doesnt have a theme, THP is alot more similar to MTM, than ATS. the only conceptual part of it is the conscious change into a different direction.
this album is only about being visceral and trying to make rock relevant again. thats it, no concept or deep meaning behind the songs.
We agree to disagree then - but trust me I can analyze anything and fine deeper meaning in it.
I never said it was concept a record. I said I personally(this means IMO) see it as a prequel to ATS lyrically and then came with a theory about my thoughts.
It's not like you have to comment on everything you disagree with me on.
And just for the record this is the first record not to have the word "lie(s)" in it.
That is saying something - to me at least.
There's definitely a theme in The Hunting Party, stating otherwise seems like denial to me. Let's take a look:
Keys To The Kingdom: War / Rebellion / Futility
- "No control" - First two words on the album stating total anarchy.
- "Fighting in futility" - Means fighting for pointlessness. War is argued to be pointless.
- "We start the final war" - ...hmmmm wonder what that means?
- "We take the hand or fist / just to sell ourselves for this / the path we least resist" - Rebellion in a nutshell
All For Nothing: War / Rebellion
- "While you debate what it could take to instigate a war" - once again bringing up the idea of conflict in war
- "And no I'm not your soldier I'm not taking any orders" - sounds like rebellion to me
- "And if I do what you demand / you'll let me understand / you're gonna hold me to your word / and if I sell myself away / I'll have no debt to pay" - sounds to me like an anarchist who has no option left in life but to join a higher power for the conflict at hand.
- "All for nothing" - once again highlighting the futility of war.
Guilty All The Same: Rebellion
- "Tell us all again / what you think we should be / how to do what you say / how to fall in line / how there's no other way" - Anarchy plain and simple.
- "You're guilty all the same / too sick to be ashamed / you want to point your finger / but there's no-one else to blame" - Sounds like more anarchy and conflict towards a higher power who is suddenly realizing the pointlessness of the situation and finding weaker people to blame
- Rakim's entire verse - how is this anything BUT anarchy towards the mainstream?
- No need to explain, this song is definitely about war.
Wastelands: War / Futility
- "This is war with no weapons" - hmmmm
- "More power less people / And no i'm not afraid of that / print it in your paperback / every rap is made in fact to act as a delayed attack / every phrase a razor blade that's saved until they play it back" - sounds like a rhetorical debate between Mike the rebellion standing up for the oppressed, and the higher power.
- "In the wastelands of today / where's there's nothing left to lose / and there's nothing left to take" - Futility of war at it's finest.
- "I'm not afraid to see you suckers hold a blade to me" - More standing up for the oppressed
- "And this is not negotiation ya'll can hate and wait and see" - Foreshadowing an upcoming conflict
Until It's Gone: Futility / Loss
- The entire cliche line of "you don't know what you've got until it's gone" speaks of futility. Whatever was there is gone now and there's nothing you can do.
- Sure Mike stated the band's true vision for the song, but it can just s easily be thrown into the context of war
Rebellion: Rebellion / Futility
- Once again another song that definitely portrays the act of rebellion and standing up for the oppressed in a time of need against a higher power.
- Of course, the take on the song is clearly how first-world acts of rebellion are futile compared to the real problems in the rest of the world.
Mark The Graves: Futility / Loss
- "There's a fragile game we play / With the ghosts of yesterday" - That game would be war.
- "No trace of what remains / no stones to mark the graves" - As stated in Wastelands, there's nothing left from the war to gain or lose.
- Marking the graves is a term itself used to honour soldiers lost in conflict.
- "And the blood may wash away / but the scars will never fade" - Chester's character has suffered from the horrors of war and nothing will replace those memories.
- "In the dark / in the light / nothing left / nothing right" - Everything is gone and there's no way of getting it back
Final Masquerade: Loss
- This song is the outlier to the album for context as there's nothing to really connect the dots.
- It's possible the character is experiencing PTSD from his time on the battlefield which is having a negative effect on the relationship, but that's reaching pretty far.
A Line In The Sand: War / Futility / Rebellion / Loss
- "Today we stood on the wall / we laughed at the sun / we laughed at the guns / we laughed at it all" - Making a joke out of war and it's futility.
- "And when they told us to go / we paid them no mind / like every other time / but little did we know" - More anarchy towards another power.
- "Your greed led the call / my flag had to fall" - That sounds like power hungry war to me.
- "Give me back what's mine" - Wanting something that's probably long gone due to the futility of war.
- Mike's entire rap verse speaks of victims of war who were lost in the idea of a greater conflict but had no idea of the futility to it.
Sure, the band members may not have outright said "The Hunting Party is a concept record", but that doesn't mean the album can't hold a singular theme or message. The Hunting Party is definitely an album portraying war, futility of war, loss, and the act of rebellion. And that's just by looking at the lyrics at face value. This war could potentially be the whole state of rock affair that the band has been playing up the entire album cycle, or it really could be a political attack. I had never thought of The Hunting Party is a pseudo-prequel to A Thousand Suns but Alexrednex said has piqued my curiosity. Contextually, it all seems to make sense, even if it was never meant to be.
You pretty much summed up a lot of my thoughts that I was too lazy to write down(seems like nobody uses logic in order to back up arguments on this forum anyway, so why start?)
I am glad you did it anyway!
The theory might be a little far-fetched but it kind of makes sense if you really look into it.
Wow great post Faint Into Pieces.
The only thing this album has to do with war and anarchy is the name of the songs, really.
The lyrics you quoted were really selectively selected, weren't they? I mean right after that KTTK lyric you've got this gem: "I'm my own casualty, I fuck up everything I say". Really not all about angst is it?
FM has the best lyrics on the album, I won't argue with that.
You can pick and chose good lyrics from any album. I mean even with Meteora, quote BTH or NL and you've suddenly making a case for Meteora having amazing lyrics.
You're making a rather reaching assumption out of over-analysing a few seperate lines of lyrics in songs to give you an idea of war and anarchy. That's all I'm going to say, because unless you go through the songs verse by verse, line by line and see a connection (which is not what you've done) you can't really state that there is a concept to the album. There are certainly a few songs about anarchy (GATS) and a few songs about far (War) but to say that the album was created that way makes no sense. I mean how do you even reconcile your thematic concept of KTTK, for example, with "I fuck up everything I say"?
This album has 14 year old's angsty lyrics mixed with a new metaphor here and there (usually one to do with a war) but that's about it.
Oh I would love to see you try
Oh so ATS is not a concept record? I have never seen anybody go through every single line on that record either.
Really we are just saying there a certain THEMES on this record. We are not saying it is a concept record.
Yep that is exactly how you analyze anything.... Like at all.
To be fair he did go through every song on the record so I honestly don't see a problem in that.
That is not the actual lyrics dude. Before bashing lyrics at least know that they are right:
Tossed the keys to the kingdom
Down that hole in my eye
I’m my own casualty
I fuck up everything I see
Fighting in futility
So It makes perfect sense(kind of).
I'm my own casuality --> I'm my own worst enemy(OH that is angsty.) but the reason for that is because he threw out the rules(democracy/the leaders --> Causing Anarchy/War(or "war" against the radio standards --> "This is the worst business call we have ever made")) he let his anger get the best of him(Tossed the keys(...) No control --> Anger makes you blind) and when you do that you are literally fighting in futility(Maybe the anger is misdirected, or like Faint into pieces said: War is pointless)
So yeah... There are lyrics on the album which doesn't really fit that well with the overall themes(Like the rap part from KTTK) - you could say the same about ATS - but that doesn't change the fact that you can interpret it in certain ways.
If you can't see it fine but you really can't really argue against an interpretation without having your own - Other than it's just angsty lyrics with no meaning because that is just really biased and fucking stupid.
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