THP less accessible than ATS?

This just came across my mind recently, with the session song thread.

THP is quite an interesting beast in LP discography. It lacks the catchiness, clean production, multi-layering of pretty much every other LP release. It comes as no surprise it became their least commercially succesful record.

Now that got me thinking. Those guitar and drum tones, those fucked up Chester vocals, that garageband-feel (at times).... They're also what makes up for the record charm. Like, they make the listening-experience both less easy-appealing and catchy, but also more.... Interesting.

At least, if you're looking for some old-school raw visceral shit.

Like, I dunno how to make my point clear. But if you look at, say, ATS, the record is considered their most experimental, daring one. And from a certain point, it is.

But on the other side, ATS is full of catchy hook, heart-warming chorus, sweet melodies, clean production, and epic progressions. While THP value relies more on tones, production quality, and technical instrumentation. It's less direct, more subtle.

Simply, all that stuff to say that maybe, in the end, THP could be LP most underground, risky, daring work?

Agree, don't agree? Maybe I make shit up

 

ATS has a lot of pop in it, even though it's one of the band's most experimental albums. Songs like BITS, WFTE, and Iridescent are fairly standard rock songs with pop and electronic elements. It was groundbreaking for Linkin Park, but not so much in the overall scheme of rock and popular music.

Similarly, THP isn't groundbreaking for rock music but it is for Linkin Park. I think it's the first album where the band puts performance over production. ATS was the opposite of that. I think THP is a much more technical and adventurous album, as blasphemous as that may sound to some people. I couldn't see the band making a song like GATS, War, KTTK back in the day.

So with that being said, I'd say that ATS can be more accessible than THP. You can share songs like WFTE, BITS, Iridescent, Wretches & Kings and people will immediately like it. They're fairly structured and immediate songs.

 

I mean, if we're talking about listeners who are brand new to the band, then, this is incredibly relative to the listener.

Someone coming from a mostly electronic/pop background won't find ATS that hard to get into. Someone who's been listening to hard rock their whole life will have no problems with THP.

 

Interesting thread. Yeah, I'd say relatively ATS is more accessible on average if you are trying to get casual music listeners into the band. Catchy hooks, good upbeat instrumentals, melodies and contains a good variety of different sounds mixed.

I always thought THP was as underground as LP can get since Hybrid Theory EP. It's raw, aggressive and was a pretty risky move by LP. While LT was a straight-forward pop album, this one was completely the opposite and why it remains a highlight in their discography. It also showed LP can make heavy rock without resorting to their nu metal sound.

It really depends on the listener. But, sure, THP is less accessible on average. Both records are definitely great contrasts though and it shows you never know what to expect from this band's albums.

 

Ironically, I would say THP sounds a lot more accessible in a 2010 world whereas ATS sounds more accessible in today's electronic/digital music era.

 

I feel like people are ignoring how accessible THP is as an album. The difference for me is that when ATS has poppy moments (BitS, WftE, Iridescent etc.), the choice of genre, production style, etc. lend itself to feeling very "poppy", whereas THP's poppier moments (AFN, Wastelands, UIG, FM etc.) are masked behind a sheen of heavy guitars and rawer production.

What this means is, as Filip said, it depends on the listener. To a rock fan, the slightly less polished production and abundance of heavy guitars wouldn't be a deterrent in the slightest, and THP would be by far the more accessible album. But to someone who doesn't really like rock at all, those factors would be huge turn-offs, whereas they might still love 'slicker' songs from ATS like BitS or Iridescent. I suppose to me, while there's a very valid argument to be made that THP has fewer songs that are 'poppy' than ATS (although to me I'd say they're about equal in that regard), the difference to me is in each album's more 'experimental' side. In my eyes, THP lacks anything as inaccessible and unusual as Blackout or even WTCFM, and even the numerous, minute-plus-long interludes would be a big turnoff to any casual listener. Maybe I'm just biased because I listen to quit a bit of alt-metal/prog-metal, but to me, there isn't much on THP that I'd describe as 'inaccessible' (the big exception being the screamed vocals if you're not used to that style, but ATS uses those as well), whereas ATS, while I wouldn't really describe it as 'inaccessible' either (in the grand scheme of things), always felt a bit more unusual and 'out there', especially in the way it blends and fuses genres (making it relatively 'inaccessible' if you don't already love all the genres it pulls from).

 

Interesting yet true

 

ATS is only really considered "experimental" or "inaccessible" I think, because of the fanbase LP has established. All things considered, when you take away the interludes, ATS is a lot more standard and accessible than its given credit for. It is just rejected by most of the fanbase because it isn't Nu-Metal. I'd say that THP is a lot more accessible for the majority of fans, as they mostly want their sound to be back to "the glory days," and The Hunting Party is the closest they'll probably ever get. Linkin Park may have amassed a large number of fans post-Meteora who would not think this way, but the number of "Nu-Metal fans" would far outweight them.

Its all relative really though. Had Linkin Park's career path been reversed, people would be rejecting their new Nu-Metal / Hard Rock approach (if you take The Hunting Party out of the equation).

 

The funny thing is that ATS was actually my first LP album and I didn't find it hard to get into. To be fair though, when I discovered their earlier material, it was even easier.

 

Lol. Imagine fans reactions if a band "progressed" from making albums like THP and ATS to making Meteora.

Not that I don't like Meteora btw, just sayin.

 

They fucking sold out, we want old LP back
Nostalgia-for-life

 

I agree with the sentiment of THP being less accessible, especially in today's era of mostly electronic music that dominates the airwaves. Of course, there are still bands and other acts out there that choose not to do heavily electronic music, which also adds more variety. Its THP's approach that really sold me on the album as a whole. It purposely challenged conventions and norms for today's popular music by stripping away key characteristics, especially clean production and polish, processed vocals, and an abundance of electronic effects. I totally understand why someone who mainly listens to electronic or pop would have a hard time getting into THP, given its unusual sound and approach.

All of that said, I am still of the belief that it was a major step in a bold, promising direction for LP, regardless of how well it "fits" into today's music scene. The furious, technical drumming, the fast (and slow) guitar solos, the unexpected pauses and breakdowns, make THP immediately stand out to me in LP's massive discography.

 

I mean accessibility is one thing and commercial is another.
I'd say when it comes to commercial aspect, both are pretty even. Meaning, they both were highly non-commercial for the time they were released and also for where they are in the bands discography. If THP came after MTM, it would have probably sold a million or two in the US by now. ATS songs like waiting for the end might have done better in 2016, a year where the top charting songs are all sad songs with upbeat music.
Accessibility really depends on which genre you can get into quickly. To me, both were pretty accessible, probably because I kept my mind open as to what to expect from the band.
But if a rock music enthusiast listens to ATS, he'd obviously say the band "sold out for dance music". And if someone who is more accustomed to pop music and electronic music listens to THP, they'd think it's way too loud, aggressive.
Bottomline is, both releases were equally gutsy from the band. Both releases equally contributed to the bands decline in sales and mainstream popularity.

 

True, although putting it that way makes it sound like taking risks didn't pay off for the band.

 

You know what's not accessible? Half of LT

 

To fulfill the artistic hunger in the music they make, it definitely paid off. Commercially, it didn't. ATS sorta did (mostly because of their previous popularity) but THP didn't, at least not to their previous standards.