Your Stance On The Iraq war

Discussion in 'Serious Chat' started by Justin, Nov 18, 2005.

  1. #41
    Razan

    Razan SUGAAAR!

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    No offense but what's the point of even "debating" on anything if you're just going to saying whatever the fuck you want without back up/proof? I'm not saying I disagree with anything you said but that quote was just...I don't know the right word for it but if anyone said that to you, you would probably not take what they're saying seriously. I prefer debating on facts.
     
  2. #42
    insanechica007

    insanechica007 Well-Known Member

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    They are. It's a war. There is a difference between innocent deaths and deaths caused by war. In a war, people get killed. What about the Civil War? How many civilians and soldiers died in that? And the Korean War?? Death is always there. And, also, when people inlist, they know they are at risk of getting killed. Same goes for the Iraqis. They aren't innocent. They're soldiers. And the civilians? Yes, not most of it is their fault, but it's their own people killing them. What about suicide bombers? You can't tell me that they're American. And who are they blowing up? Yes, the US troops, but how many of their own people do they kill along with them? Alot of them don't even see their fellow Iraqis as their own people.

    Okay, saunderitos, you put forth your opinion. That's all I asked. You couldn't care less if I respected you or not? I shouldn't. After all, you've called my father a liar. Why would he lie? But, I'm choosing to look apon this as

    There was proof that he had WMDs. 10 UN resolutions. What about the fact that he wouldn't let the UN search him and his estates? Bush didn't lie. And the fact that Katrina happened wasn't his fault. Besides, oil priced didn't even go as high as predicted. Americans use alot of gas..the prices are going to have been going up. And the dictartors in Latin America? They had no reason to harm us. The Cuban government isn't nearly as deadly as the Iraqi government once was. The US never supplied Iraq with the means to make WMDs. But, what I don't understand is why is it never Clinton who did anything. Have you noticed that all the former presidents that are put down are never liberals? Clinton was one of the worst things to happen to this country. He fucked this all up before Bush had even gotten here. I just wanted to point that out.

    No, I'm not, as long as Bush is alive. :D
     
  3. #43
    Methybrea

    Methybrea Well-Known Member

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    All of this has evidence of no proof and much of it shows that you have no idea what you're talking about.

    One, before the war the UN was in the midst of an inspection that Saddam had AGREED to. This is a widely known fact, and if you want a source I'll provide it.

    Two, of course Katrina wasn't his fault...but the same thing happened, didn't it? Nobodies to blame, but to stop these things from happening again oil securities are very important to economic stability.

    Three, about the dictators...what does it matter that they didn't want to harm us? The U.S. was installing murderous regimes in Latin America letting them kill off the opposition in their country while supplying these regimes with arms and recon! Cuba? This is no dictatorship really, look at Guatamala, Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua...millions of people died between them. I was saying that all of this freedom fighting seriously contradicts a lot of previous and current US policies.

    Four, you are saying the Iraqi gov't was deadly to us? Any proof? The Bush Administration ADMITTED there was no WMDs found in the country but yet used other excuses like Saddam's gassing of the Kurds. This has been said many times in this thread!

    Five, I never said this! But they did supply Iraq with chemical and nuclear weapons.
    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/
    Six, how come Clinton isn't blamed? First of all, Clinton didn't start any wars and other than in Serbia did little in the way of interventionalist policies, rather than the neo-conservatives Bush Sr., Bush Jr., and Reagan. Clintons was impeached over a sexual affair...how insignificant compared to G.W. Bush and tens of thousands of Iraqis and over 2000 Americans dead by his hands. Thats why Clinton wasn't blamed...how did he fuck up the country, anyways?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sorry I am coming off mad, but I am frustrated that while you are discussing, you fail to read others points and think critically on them. And when you do, you say your opinions but show know proof, and to a person who has studied these topics you come off as someone who hasn't really read into recent World History very much. Thats fine, but please don't keep spouting statements with no basis or merit.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 4, 2005
  4. #44
    Mark

    Mark Canadian Beauty LPA Administrator

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    Unless you consider the largest budget surplus in United States history "fucking up" your country. :lol:

    In 1992, when Clinton first got into office, the Federal budget deficit was $290 billion. That was ran up by Bush Sr. The Congressional Budget Office predicted it would rise to a deficit of $445 billion by 2000. (Source) In 2000, Clinton reported a record budget surplus of $230 billlion, beating the previous year's then-record of $122.7 billion. (Source) In 2004, Bush declared that the federal budget deficit would be $500 bilion, the highest deficit in US history. (Source)

    Insane: Hearsay does not count as credible proof. You need to back up your statements instead of introducing flawed, baseless arguments.
     
  5. #45
    Methybrea

    Methybrea Well-Known Member

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    Holy shit! $230 billion SURPLUS? I think the current Canadian surplus, $9 billion, is one of the highest ever! IT kinda dwarfs in comparison!

    Opinion:
    I'd have to say much of the pro-Bush arguement from the citizens is the product of much of the fear and lack of balanced information that is presented by the media. Also, with Bush lowering taxes and the US social safety net, he lowers the skill/intelligence level of the general population. People who have less education in some way (be it trades, university, or whatever) are less informed and less able to make critical decisions based on the facts presented. I think that Bush's preaching of protection, religious, and faith caters to the comfort zones of American minds, pacifying their actual concerns because of overwhelming paranoia that has been created by the media and corporations.
     
  6. #46
    saunderitos

    saunderitos Banned

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    America don't allow UN inspectors to enter america.

    America is just hypocritical, they have the most Nuclear weaponary/ chemical weaponary in the world, so why do they kill people who have them aswell?

    Why don't you ask him that, I think that your father lied because I think it is ridiculous about what he said,happening. Why would you greet men who are killing you,destroying your hospitals with 'precision weaponary', blowing up apsrin factories because you THINK you are making weapons there? Oh, thats right, he is just supplying fuel to the tanks that destroy their towns and cities.

    Why are there people prepared to destroy themselves to kill a few of you?
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2005
  7. #47
    Will

    Will bread crumbs & white stones LPA Addicted VIP

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    Uh, dude, the UN headquarters is IN America.
     
  8. #48
    saunderitos

    saunderitos Banned

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    hmmm,maybe EU, I muddle them up alot ^^
     
  9. #49
    insanechica007

    insanechica007 Well-Known Member

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    You all might find this intresting..this backing up what I said about being in Iraq had nothing to do with its oil. Look here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/iraq_strategy_nov2005.html

    In this, an official statement from the White House, it states reasons as to why being in Iraq is of US intrest: "Iraq is the central front in the global war on terror. Failure in Iraq will embolden terrorists and expand their reach; success in Iraq will deal them a decisive and crippling blow. The fate of the greater Middle East -- which will have a profound and lasting impact on American security -- hangs in the balance."

    It also states, further on: "We will help the Iraqi people build a new Iraq with a constitutional, representative government that respects civil rights and has security forces sufficient to maintain domestic order and keep Iraq from becoming a safe haven for terrorists. To achieve this end, we are pursuing an integrated strategy along three broad tracks, which together incorporate the efforts of the Iraqi government, the Coalition, cooperative countries in the region, the international community, and the United Nations."

    And furter more: "Our Strategy Is Working. Much has been accomplished in Iraq, including the removal of Saddam's tyranny, negotiation of an interim constitution, restoration of full sovereignty, holding of free national elections, formation of an elected government, drafting of a permanent constitution, ratification of that constitution, introduction of a sound currency, gradual restoration of Iraq's neglected infrastructure, and the ongoing training and equipping of Iraq's security forces."

    It gives cold, clear reasons as to why we are there, why we are staying, and what's happening in Iraq. The page also has links to statements from the president on issues such as Hurricane Katrinia relief, and Homeland Security.

    There you go.
     
  10. #50
    insanechica007

    insanechica007 Well-Known Member

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    You all might find this intresting..this backing up what I said about being in Iraq had nothing to do with its oil. Look here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/ir...y_nov2005.html

    In this, an official statement from the White House, it states reasons as to why being in Iraq is of US intrest: "Iraq is the central front in the global war on terror. Failure in Iraq will embolden terrorists and expand their reach; success in Iraq will deal them a decisive and crippling blow. The fate of the greater Middle East -- which will have a profound and lasting impact on American security -- hangs in the balance."

    It also states, further on: "We will help the Iraqi people build a new Iraq with a constitutional, representative government that respects civil rights and has security forces sufficient to maintain domestic order and keep Iraq from becoming a safe haven for terrorists. To achieve this end, we are pursuing an integrated strategy along three broad tracks, which together incorporate the efforts of the Iraqi government, the Coalition, cooperative countries in the region, the international community, and the United Nations."

    And furter more: "Our Strategy Is Working. Much has been accomplished in Iraq, including the removal of Saddam's tyranny, negotiation of an interim constitution, restoration of full sovereignty, holding of free national elections, formation of an elected government, drafting of a permanent constitution, ratification of that constitution, introduction of a sound currency, gradual restoration of Iraq's neglected infrastructure, and the ongoing training and equipping of Iraq's security forces."

    It gives cold, clear reasons as to why we are there, why we are staying, and what's happening in Iraq. The page also has links to statements from the president on issues such as Hurricane Katrinia relief, and Homeland Security.

    There you go.
     
  11. #51
    Will

    Will bread crumbs & white stones LPA Addicted VIP

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    LMFAO.

    Of course a White House report is going to say that!!! It's run by Bush's administration!

    Why don't you go read the 9/11 Commission? It might open your eyes. But before you claim it's "anti-Bush," remember that it was organized by Bush himself and even BLOCKED by Bush before it became public.
     
  12. #52
    Mark

    Mark Canadian Beauty LPA Administrator

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    Hahaha! I can't believe you accused us of using biased sources and then come to us with White House reports! That's rich.
     
  13. #53
    saunderitos

    saunderitos Banned

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    ^^
     
  14. #54
    Methybrea

    Methybrea Well-Known Member

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    To take it to the extreme, thats like someone in World War 2 supporting Nazi propaganda by giving people some of their fliers! We would all be fools to believe that.

    I'm not saying that there is no proof to your point, but first of all you need to give evidence that disproves our evidence that we back with proof. But a government website will not be a good source of information for this issue, speaking of bias! Of course they are going to say positive things about Iraq since that is a policy they are trying to gain support for!
     
  15. #55
    foofightersgroopie

    foofightersgroopie Member

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    I know I am only 17 and the rest of you guys have a close up on life because you are livin on you own. But what I have to say about the war does not need to be over looked.
    I think that the war idea has a plus side. I mean, look at it this way. I'm an American. Damn proud of it. And to sit around while Iraquies bomb my country, Bush made a good choice. Now I know that part of the people here say that we should not be about fighting, it should be about developing peace on earth and all that crap. Well for get it, it aint gunna happen, as long as there are thugs, gangs, and rapists out there there will never be peace. So why make a country look wimpy when we have the equiptment to fight back and protect our selfs.
    Now I know that yall could care less about what a 17 year old has to say, but come on, use your brain for once. Not all the Bush has done is bad.
     
  16. #56
    Todd

    Todd FLǕGGȦ∂NKđ€ČHIŒβǾLʃÊN LPA Administrator

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    When did Iraq ever bomb the US? Oh, um, how about NEVER
     
  17. #57
    insanechica007

    insanechica007 Well-Known Member

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    So now you are all saying that this lied.
    Okay, I can work with that.
    How do you know that all of your sources aren't lying? How do you know that Bush is lying? How does anyone know anything?
    I doubt they would lie in an official statement from the government. This isn't some CBS report or TIME article here. This is the real plan. It's not an opinion. It's not a matter if the media will accept it or not. It's the real thing. I'm not saying that my source are better than yours, I'm just saying that this is from the White House.
    Once the White House says Bush fucked up about this, then I'll believe it.
     
  18. #58
    Will

    Will bread crumbs & white stones LPA Addicted VIP

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    This just in:

    The White House already said that the Bush administration fucked up.

    IT'S CALLED THE "9/11 COMMISSION REPORT."

    Are you even reading anything we're saying?

    Also, the government lies all the damn time. Reagan's administration lied, Nixon's adminstration lied, Clinton's adminstration lied, they've all lied.
     
  19. #59
    Justin

    Justin See you there

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    Yeah they did! Saddam Husin bombd us with with the nucler weapons remember? THats why we went, and cuz liberating the Iraquies is noble and kind. Y r the Iraquies kiling ppls when they should be kissing the Donald Rumfields feet?
     
  20. #60
    Mark

    Mark Canadian Beauty LPA Administrator

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    So because there is violence in the world, the US should contribute to the problem with more violence? That's the most skewed logic I've ever heard. Two wrongs do not make a right.

    I turned 18 just over two weeks ago, so any 17 year old has a valid opinion people should listen to...if they have sufficient knowledge to form an opinion on a subject instead of making uneducated assumptions based on ignorance.

    Iraq had no WMDs. They didn't have the capacity to attack your country. Both of these things have been proven by numerous government reports (i.e: 9/11 commission report) and media sources. So while you stand idly by, succumbing to the Republican fear machine and thinking exactly what they want you to think: that Iraq is a threat, you're only letting yourself be controlled by unfounded paranoia and propaghanda. If you took the time to research and backcheck what this government tells you, you'd realize that you've been making alot of uneducated guesses based on blindly following their words, like sheep. Think for yourself.
     

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