No and No... and ironically, after becoming a mean ol Atheist I seem to have discovered a path of clarity, and I became a much happier person. I was not expecting that because of the stupid stereotypes. Since I do not believe any part of religion has a positive contribution to society that another part of society doesn't already cover, I think the bad outweighs the good here. I do not see any benefit for people to lie to themselves. How can you solve problems with other people if you do not understand people and the world around you? I find most religiously based codes to be outdated and morally bankrupt. The ones that survive today only survived because they were actually good ideas, but a lot of the bad ones persist because they are a part of religion and it's considered bad to offend people's religious sensibilities, even if those sensibilities are evil. Whenever I think of a highly religious society, I think of sharia law, the persecution of gay people, female genital mutilation, Texan schoolkids teasing their atheist classmates, and many other demands to conform. My ideal world is a world where people are okay with expressing their conflicts verbally. Conflict is necessary for a group to figure out how to do the right thing. The best idea is then granted an opportunity to come out on top. When verbal conflict is denied for the sake of peacefulness, you may jeopordize that peacefulness because the oppressed will then have to resort to violence. The #1 problem with religion is that it creates arbitrary moral rules with the belief, not the knowledge, that they will appease a God. Then it shuts down people who disagree with those rules because the people who created them pretend that God said so. No human is God. No human has the right to declare that moral code X is divine and that everyone else should conform to those codes without definitive proof that their God is the right God. Since there's isn't definitive proof, people should remain humble and respect that others can come to different conclusion then they do. Religious societies don't reflect this humbleness. Not to mention - there is a rank somewhere that lists countries in order of the quality of life of its citizens. Secular societies like Sweden ranks among the best. Religious countries ranked much worse. While vices like greed will always exist, we don't need more causes of hatred hanging about. Fewer is better. But the parts before that though were passed on orally. Look at the book of Genesis: one part says Noah brought two of each kind of animal onto the Ark. Another part says he brought seven. That's from when the poor scribe didn't know which version of events to write down. Not to mention that translation by itself is enough of a giant change.
Undecided if I believe in god, I don't believe in organized religion though. I was raised(forced) to be Catholic, but I don't follow it at all and don't consider myself Catholic.
This is where you're generalizing. You may remember from a previous religions thread that I am also an Atheist. However, I like to show religious people the tolerance that I expect from them. Here's a video a friend of mine in college found (my friend is the first guy speaking, the second guy is the original video he found). The title of the video is "Dear Atheists and Homosexuals: I Am Sorry" It is a young Christian apologizing for the people you were referring to Kathy, those that condemn others just because they disagree with Christian beliefs. [video=youtube;Eetk35H_LKI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eetk35H_LKI[/video] The argument that "Christianity (or any religion) causes intolerance" is invalid because of people like this, who are also Christian. If Christianity caused intolerance among people, then people like the two in the above video would not exist. The religions themselves are not the problem, it's our dumb asses who take it way out of hand. By condemning religions, you're basically fighting fire with fire, and as a result are being no different than the intolerant religious crazies you are speaking out against. tl;dnr version: If you're a Christian, accept those opposing your viewpoint and be on your way. If you're an Atheist, do the same. If you're a Buddhist, do the same. If you're a _______ , do the same.
Wow...I see quite a few people with some close mindedness in here.. That is very unfortunate.. To answer the TT I am a Christian, but no I don't follow a certain denomination. I don't shove it down others throats and those who say "i hate religion for some big generalization" are just as bad as the people they claim to dislike. Also Kathy...lying to ourselves? Really? I don't believe I'm living a lie, and I use my humanity, not my faith, as a reason to help others around me. Even if someone doesn't believe in god they shouldn't shun others regardless of what that person may or may not believe.
I used to be like this. I don't hate religion categorically and I don't think everyone who practises it is a bad person, but I've realised that the simple matter of the fact is that if you're going to give credit to religion for the good it does and then poo poo the idea that it can also be bad, you are having it both ways. You are not invalidating anything just by posting that video. I could put a video of Fred Phelps or the current Pope here and say the same back at you. Everything else you've said there is pretty much covered already - why give people another excuse to be dickheads, when maybe we wouldn't really need it for anything if we tried going without it? I don't want to condemn anything but it's hard for me to get away from that. Also, criticising religion is not the same as intolerance, at all, and what you say about it here seems like kind of a generalisation in itself.
Well, it seems there's at least a couple good, fair Christians in the world. That doesn't make generalization wrong.
Yes, it is. You're telling a group of people their way is wrong and yours is right. Just because your way of thinking is more scientifically provable, does not mean you should immediately cast off everything else. For every reason you can give as to why God cannot exist, someone can easily come back with some unexplainable phenomenon that science cannot prove, as a reason as to why God must exist. For every example you give of a "bad" Christian, someone can give you an example of a "good" Christian. By condemning Christians as wrong, you are basically doing the same thing they do when they condemn an Atheist to Hell (condemn an Atheist as wrong). How is what I'm saying a generalization? What I'm saying is that everyone has their own beliefs, and that everyone should keep it to their fucking selves and not force what you believe onto other people. Atheists do this just as much as religious people do. They just feel like they have more of a right to do so because the evidence for their position is more empirical, whereas Christianity and religion is *faith* based. It's not supposed to be provable - that's the point. I'm not ignoring the bad things religion causes. I HATE when religious people try to shove their beliefs down peoples throats, HATE when they condemn people for disagreeing, HATE the violence that comes from it, etc. But that does NOT mean I should hate the religions themselves, or generalize and condemn ALL religious people. The religions themselves preach humility and peace. What I HATE are the IDIOTS who take it too far. It's all individual. Fred Phelps does not make me hate Christianity, Fred Phelps makes me hate Fred Phelps for his ignorance. If I had the power, I would make all religion disappear from the Earth. I believe we can be good people without it, and a lot of violence in the world would cease. However, that is not happening anytime soon. So rather than spew hate at the religious, I make judgments about people on an individual basis, and go on about my business. What I'm saying is the exact opposite of a generalization.
Generalized Christian: I hate atheist and if you don't believe then you're a bad person! Generalized Athiest: I hate god and religion so everyone who believes as such are bad people with no intelligence! See how it works there?
If There was no Religion, It would be better, because people would be more afraid of dying, Which stops RELIGIOUS violence.
I'm not afraid to die. When my time comes it comes, but that doesn't mean I support killing innocent people.
Yeah, what you're describing there is people disagreeing, not showing intolerance. If they can't take it, boo fucking hoo. Your views on religion are your choice and you deal with the consequences, ie the possibility that not everyone shares your beliefs. Getting worked up at that is just as intolerant. Try me. Exactly. You are generalising anyone who is critical of religion as intolerant, although I guess that isn't a generalisation as much as just confusing intolerance with people disagreeing. And I can question it if I want. They can question me trying to base my life on reason and what I'm sure is real if they want. That's what I do too. The thing is though, the stupid parts of it go all the way to the top in some cases, and I'm not just talking about fringe groups, and there's still plenty of shitty backwards stuff in religious texts that people still take seriously. So it's hard for me to say "brilliant, religion is great!" when someone does something good, then turn around and say "oh, never mind, they're just extremists and nutcases who no one can possibly take seriously" whenever someone does something bad. I'm sure I said earlier in this thread - you have to take the bad with the good. You aren't generalising but you're kind of having it both ways if you fully acknowledge one and ignore the other.
Yeah, but it's mostly true. I have no problem with people saying these things because most Christians are like this and most atheists are like this. Generalization is a healthy instinct. I'm glad my ancestors didn't give tigers the chance to prove if they are actually different from other tigers. Killing it or running away seems better than going up to it and seeing if it could be tame. Actually, most atheists probably aren't like that. But I don't care either way. People can say whatever they want and it doesn't change anything.
I do believe in God. I'm a proud Catholic. I have only gone to church like 5 times in the past year but I have thought about going back. I don't know if I would call myself religious. I wouldn't say I'm not religious at all. I still consider myself Catholic and I still wear my crucifix and I still celebrate religious holidays.