You don't know what I have experienced with girl scouts in my life. Chances are I have a justifiable reason for telling off girl scouts in general. Perhaps every girl scout I've run into has been a self-righteous jerk. Just because you're perfect doesn't mean everyone else is. And don't lie; you know of more girl scout assholes than you would care to admit. I know I've met my fair share.
You stopped reading before you got to my second paragraph, didn't you? Next time read my entire post instead of stopping at my hook. I'll spell it out without the fancy rhetorical sarcasm now: Disgust of some group of people is not justifiable for removing their rights. My first paragraph there is to demonstrate to you that, just as some people find disgust with what gay people do, the Christians exposing this discrimination are not morally invincible either. And also see how it felt if someone took your rights away (which should have dissolved as soon as you got to the second paragraph, which was when you should have realized my first was only rhetoric and not an actual proposal). And to spell it out further: I don't think Christians shouldn't be able to marry. I think everyone should be able to marry with a partner able to give legal consent. It doesn't matter what sort of experiences I have in my life. I do not get to discriminate against anyone, except in the instance where they are taking somebody else's rights away. I do not get to push my beliefs onto other people, and this is something that these anti-gay religious people need to get a serious clue about. The government is to be neutral on religious matters. Not pro or against anything. It is to sit back and let it's citizens make their own choices. Nobody chooses to be gay. Seriously. Nobody chooses to go down a path where they are disowned by their parents and then beaten until bloody up by religious people and then later sent off to gay therapy camps where camp leaders unfairly sow hatred of their father into them. And as stated earlier, there is no "Guide to be Gay." There's nothing inherent in homosexuality that dictates how to be a moral person. gay people do not have an agenda to brainwash other people. Furthermore, you cannot swap a privileged group for a minority group and call it the same. If you don't understand why, research what privilege means. Religion is different. It is an intellectual belief. Nobody is born into their religion. They are indoctrinated into it and choose to ignore all of the cognitive dissonance from it. It claims to be an authority on morality, without providing corresponding evidence. This means that religion guides people's actions in all walks of their life, be it personal, political, professional, etc. And then tries to spread that onto other people with or without their consent. There is a simple fact that people need to be held responsible for their actions. If you choose to do actions that hurt real people based on supernatrual beliefs you have no evidence for, then you do not deserve respect. You are not God and thus do not know for sure if you are right. And you do not get to speak on God's behalf, no matter how much faith you have. If you think you can, demonstrate logically why your beliefs are right and everyone else's similar-but-different religious laws are wrong. Furthermore, I am not naive anymore. People aren't religious because they logically weighed the pros and cons of each religion on earth and chose the one best one. They're religious because of emotional reasons. You cannot reason with a person like that; I've spent years trying to be reasonable. And they do not extend the same courtesy to me, evidenced by millions of people rallying behind conservative leaders who are so eager to take other group's rights away while hypocritically placing their own on pedestals. The only defense, therefore, is an emotional one. Don't waste your time reasoning to people who don't use reason. Just go around busting bubbles, instead.
People who think being Gay is some kind of choice are just kidding themselves. It's as simple as that. And as long as there are people that DO think it's a choice, the discrimination won't end.
Using the negatives of being gay isn't a very good argument to why people wouldn't choose to be gay, though. Straight guys don't like being beat up by a pissed off boyfriend of the girl they banged when he was out of town, but that won't stop them from doing the girl anyways. Similarly, gays could choose to be gay just because their love for the same sex overcomes the negatives. Though I don't think it's a choice anyways, so I don't know why I'm talking about it.
I don't know either. And in your example the guy could just find a new girlfriend opposed to gay people who can find someone they love and yet can't marry them or get harassed for going out with him.
You're receiving an infraction for that. You have clearly misinterpreted Kathy, and even having done so, you have no right to say something like that. It has no place in this discussion, nor does it have any place on this forum. And let this be a warning to all of you that here we are having a discussion: all thoughts and opinions are welcome, but if you're going to say something to deliberately offend someone like that, you will suffer the consequences. Carry on.
In the same respect, deftones brings up a very touchy subject. While I will definitely agree with Louis that deftones should have not came at Kathy the way he did (sorry deftones, you deserved to get the infraction), how much better are we being exactly...if we're stereotyping Christian people the same way we are criticizing them for supposedly stereotyping gay people? I will be the first to say that organized religion in general disgusts me, and that I hate the fact that our Christian leaders are letting their one-sided views determine the laws in this country. But in the same respect I know that not every Christian is homophobic or bigoted like the ones we are railing against in this topic. There are some Christians out there who are for gay marriage, and even Barack Obama (a known Christian) is for repealing the DOMA even though his personal beliefs haven't made him completely accept gay marriage as a whole. So there are some good Christians out there in the world, and although people in here are correct in saying it is mostly Christians doing the prejudice, people need to remember that not every Christian is a bigoted, rights denying asshole. There are good Christians out there in the world.
On a side note, I am a person who deserves to be offended. I appreciate the help, but I hope you are enforcing the rules in search of fairness rather than protecting me, which is what I assume you are doing. I chose this battle and chose to phrase truths bluntly and I take no offense when people lunge at me in response. On another note, I am making the general assumption that religious people who take the rules of their religion more flexibly (ie, the more left swinging christians) know who they are and know that my rants against the more conservative fire-and-brimstone types don't concern them. But since the bible states that it is anti-homosexual I will target the religion, regardless. This was what I was referring to by switching a privileged group for a minority group and calling it the same. They're not comparable. The pissed off boyfriend would probably be a one-off incident, pissed-off boyfriend is only one person. It is much, much different than being attacked by an entire society and it's establishments, every day, all the time.
I just got to thinking how long it's been since a powerful speech (most particularly by a president) has been made. I just feel like a big speech by the president or some other influential person may really help getting homosexuals all of the rights that they deserve. Unfortunately, it does appear that Obama doesn't have enough passion for the cause (though he at least isn't anti-gay). But again, it wouldn't have to necessarily be the president. I guess I'm asking for a speech equivalent to the "I have a Dream" speech.
@deftonesfan867 This is exactly why I didn't even bother replying to most of the comment here, I knew I'd just get an infraction. Because when you say something bad about a minority, you're saying that about the entire group, but when you keep insulting the majority it's ok because you're actually just insulting the "vocal minority" that you think is wrong. Example: it's ok to say: - I will be the first to say that organized religion in general disgusts me but it's not ok to say - Gay people disgust me Carry on.
What would you say? Are you suggesting that we shouldn't say anything bad about either? That organized religion and gay people aren't disgusting. Or are you merely suggesting that we treat them equal: organized religion and gay people are disgusting. Or are you simply being hypocritical, and you think criticizing gay people is OK while criticizing organized religion is bad, while saying that our reversal of that is unwarranted. If you're gonna take action based on religious belief, you better be able to take criticism of it. Take responsibility for your actions. I criticize organized religion because it (as a group) is hurting people. In case you haven't noticed, Gay Marriage is being stopped in many states by popular vote. I am not talking about the actions of a disproportionate minority, like saying all Christians are like the Phelps family. A majority of citizens in some places are bigots. I am not criticizing gay people because they (as a group) have done nothing to hurt anyone. It's that simple.
People choose their religion. People don't choose their sexuality. IMO anything you choose to do should be fair game for criticism.
And in Derek's defense, he never said religious PEOPLE disgusted him. He was just talking about the idea of religion. There's a difference. Some people don't like homosexuality but are still able to respect gay people. I'd like to think that Derek doesn't hate religious people.
It's simple: one's an idea (organized religion), and the other is an actual group of people (homosexuals). There's a big difference between hating religion as an institution and hating religious people. Sure, there's bound to be some overlap (some atheists do hate people of faith), but being critical of religion in and of itself isn't bigotry.
Thank you. At least you can understand what I meant without taking it out of context. I don't hate the people, I hate the concept of religion. There's a big difference there. I despise organized religion (not just Christianity) because historically it has been responsible for some very terrible things, when people have committed atrocities in the name of a certain god or deity. It's not the people really who are to blame for my disgust, as it more so what these people DO in the name of their god when they are given the power to make a real difference. Such power could be used for good, and long lasting change...but instead it's being used to deny people of their basic human rights. All because of who they decide to sleep with.
I completely agree Derek. I hate when religion does this to people [video=vimeo;25676383]http://vimeo.com/25676383[/video] Folks, this is Rick Perry. This is someone who could become our president. And he has no solutions to the economy other than praying to God and asking him to fix it.