Hot Karl song w/ Mike Shinoda: "Like Riding A Bike"

Discussion in 'News' started by minuteforce, Jun 2, 2016.

  1. #41
    minuteforce

    minuteforce Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. LPA Team

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    For me, the flows in those songs are cringeworthy, esp. in "Burn It Down". I would actually like "Burn It Down" were it not for the rap verse.
     
  2. #42
    Xero-G

    Xero-G Reborn LP Fan, and plan to stay that way.

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    I'm not really big into rap or hip-hop, so I tend to just listen to Mike's work, so there is bias with me. I accepted long ago that Mike will never be the "best" rapper out there, as that is simply an impossible standard/ranking to achieve or live up to.

    I am curious, how do you feel about Mike's pre-HT era rapping? I mean, his raps and verses before HT the album released, when the band was actually called Hybrid Theory.
    Some of the songs from that era still contain some of my absolute favorite work from Mike (And One, Part of Me, Dedicated, High Voltage especially). He really had awesome flow, wordplay, and imagery in all those songs IMO. Best of all, he really didn't sound all that robotic, as his lyrics just flowed seamlessly in those songs.
     
  3. #43
    minuteforce

    minuteforce Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. LPA Team

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    "Dedicated" and "And One" contain verses I really like. Good for their time, and could probably be alright today next to underground lyrical emcees who are heavy on abstract imagery.
     
  4. #44
    Modern Guitar God

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    In Mike's early songs, he was much more of a typical hip hop MC, focusing mostly on rhyme patterns, pop culture references, and imagery. HT and after, he kind of focused mostly on emotional catharsis and storytelling. "Reading My Eyes" and "High Voltage" sound like they're not from the same person who wrote "Somewhere I Belong" or "By Myself". He started going back to his earlier style of rapping a little bit on ATS and everything after. I think "It's Goin' Down" and "Frgt/10" were hinting back at him going back to pre-HT rapping but he ended up not carrying on with it.

    Just my two cents :shrug: I understand if anyone disagrees.
     
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  5. #45
    Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Well-Known Member

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    I agree. He sounds closer to a rapper than anytime before and he is definitely far better than he was from 2003-2009. That was just a sad era for Shinoda. The weird thing is though imo is he either holds up well or gets completely outshined. He has worked with so many rappers over the years, that there is no clear way what will happen. I usually expect him to get completely outshined on track with other emcees who are more experienced but he has definitely surprised me before. I guess it just depends on what people think is a good rapper. Some like complex rhyme patterns/abstract underground hip hop so maybe Xero, Hybrid Theory era stuff, some prefer delivery/flow so they may be inclined to his recent material and some might just prefer concepts or storytelling so Fort Minor stuff is in their league. I do agree putting up with the best emcees, both mainstream and independent, he would get outshined hard. At best, he holds his own. Maybe only 3 or 4 examples in his career where I think he unbiasedly crushed a track with another rapper, but it's like once every 6 years on average imo. I think he would be a really nice emcee if he can keep experimenting with his flow like he has been but putting the same creativity and technicality in his rhymes during the 1997-2002 era. Of course, not exactly since High Voltage for example is more of a product of underground hip hop of that time but something more like that since he seems to be in a battle rapping style for the last couple of years. I shouldn't complain too much though since he is at least trying to say, Meteora era rapping but I do feel he wasted alot of potential.
     
  6. #46
    minuteforce

    minuteforce Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. LPA Team

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    It's not about experience. I just can't take Shinoda's rapping seriously if he's stacked up against anyone ... except other nu-metal rappers. There's just that sense of legitimacy or resonance that's missing, the way I see it.

    There's a reason Shinoda's not taken seriously in hip-hop circles.
     
  7. #47
    Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Well-Known Member

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    Well that's fine. I understand what you mean. It really depends who you ask. I can understand writing Shinoda completely off but I don't really think it's fair to compare him to nu metal rappers. I can't even think of a consistent nu metal rapper except Durst and I think I give more credit to Mike. He's no Black Thought but I wouldn't even compare him to Vanilla Ice either. If anything he's more just comparable to a generic boom bap underground rapper then anything. Nothing special but I wouldn't say illegitimate. I see respect for him on hip hop forums at times. Of course, elitists will automatically write him off but I think he's been considered to be at least a segway for Asian hip hop artists. I think he has a shout out from Dumbfounded.

    He doesn't have the "battle stripes" to be a legit emcee but legitimacy in hip hop doesn't mean a whole lot to me. As long as you can spit, I don't care if your a Canadian suburban kid on the come up. As long as you ain't bragging about stuff you never did, I can suspend my imagination.
     
  8. #48
    Iopia

    Iopia Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. I don't personally see background as a valid metric, as if a rapper from "the hood" is automatically better than someone from a middle class background even if they're equally talented, especially if the subject matter is completely removed (it's not like Shinoda's running around trying to convince people he's "gangsta"). Separate the art from the artist. Shinoda's nothing special as a rapper, but there are far, far worse, and I don't think it's fair to write off an artist based off their background alone, as if a verse Mike writes would somehow become more legitimate if someone else wrote it. Good rapping is good rapping, bad rapping is bad rapping, and mediocre rapping is, well, mediocre rapping. Shinoda's rapping can be... questionable at times, but other times he absolutely knocks it out of the park. Even if the verses aren't the most technical, or fast, or lyrically clever, sometimes they just serve the music perfectly. They don't need to be anything more. I don't think that an artist should feel the need to be "legitimate" to have their art taken seriously. The art should be judged on its own merit.

    You get this a lot in Metal as well, a small minority of elitists claiming that a band has to be "metal enough" before they'll even bother listening to them. Frankly I don't care who wrote a song or album, if I like it I like it. If I cared so much I'd stick to Floyd, Radiohead and Porcupine Tree instead of listening to Linkin Park. :shrug:
     
  9. #49
    GraveDigger388

    GraveDigger388 Nothing's gonna top my Jacky

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    I agree with Iopia.
     
  10. #50
    Modern Guitar God

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    I don't think anyone is saying that his background or upbringing makes him less qualified as a rapper. That's too much of a shallow nitpick.

    Some people are just not impressed overall with Mike's rapping, in both the context of LP's music and in hip hop in general. What he does serves the song and gets the job done though. I know that Mike has to wear a lot of hats in the studio, so I don't blame him for not being one of the best rappers out there. His main job is being a songwriter and producer, which is what he completely excels at.

    He's shown that he can really rap. For example "Frgt/10", "High Voltage", "It's Goin' Down", even "Reading My Eyes". There's also a freestyle he did with DJ Vice where he pretty much nailed the delivery and lyricism. So yeah, he's not all terrible. Just don't know why he doesn't bring that caliber of rapping to LP - though to his credit, he started rapping better again from ATS onwards. And his best lyrics are actually on "Hands Held High", though the other song on MTM ("Bleed it Out") had kind of mediocre verses. We get hints of him returning back to his old style on ATS, LT, THP but nothing near the quality of his early hip hop songs.

    Sounds like I'm complaining and I apologize if it does. Just merely laying out some of my observations. I'm not asking Mike to change or am telling him to get back to the writing lab :lol:. Just stating what I've observed from the outside. Who knows, maybe he'll wow us on this next album :shrug:. Then again, you gotta eliminate any expectations.
     
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  11. #51
    minuteforce

    minuteforce Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance. LPA Team

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    Within the confines of LP - within that vacuum - it's all well and good. It's when you put Shinoda's rapping in the context of the hip-hop world that it falls apart; he actually just doesn't fit there at all.
     

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