What are your views on it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism It's relatable, especially since Capitalism is such a pain in the ass usually. I'm not really a Neo-Marxist, since I find Max Weber's ideology more logical. Discuss.
The problem seems to be this: To start a communist government, you need a revolution In a revolution, you need a strong decisive leader With a strong decisive leader and a new government, you get a dictatorship With a dictatorship, you get corruption With corruption, you get just about every communist country we have seen
I think a lot of his sociological theories were actually pretty accurate. I don't necessarily agree with all of his views or his solutions for the problems he tended to cover though.
I think there's a huge problem when Socialism needs to evolve from Capitalism: I don't think the "workers" are class conscious enough right now. I don't think our form of Capitalism could ever be overthrown by the workers anyway, not even with a revolution because our government isn't nearly as corrupt as those governments revolutions have overthrown in history. There isn't a ruling class that employs the true working class anymore, the true working class is getting really small in Europe too, since all real labour happens in 3rd world countries or poor countries with laws that are less strict than ours. Marx didn't (and couldn't have) taken globalisation into account, basically. That's just one criticism...
I don't know if I'd say that the working class has been replaced completely though. All it really means is whoever's at the bottom of the pile, and there is still very much a native working class here, at least. It's just that a lot of factories are being moved abroad (not necessarily to third world countries). Office jobs are the new factory jobs. But you're right that he couldn't have taken globalisation into account as it wasn't really around then, definitely not on a big scale including lots of different industries. There is much more to Marxism than just revolutionary socialism though, I mean it incorporates a lot of beliefs that aren't necessarily concerned with that.
There are some strong theories prevalent in Marxism that I do agree with, but I think it falls short on practical applications.
Yeah, of course, I agree. Although, I don't agree with working class meaning whoever's at the bottom of the pile. There are a lot of people who don't work in today's society and more importantly the government is really concerned about them, they are taken care off better than ever before. Even, if you'd include those in the working class, it wouldn't be likely for them to start a revolution. They might want to because they are at the bottom, but they'd sink a whole lot lower if the government was overthrown. I just think it's absurd to see capitalism as a negative factor towards "poor" people here. I think it's far worse for the people who are directly exploited by capitalist countries through dictarorships and so called democracy's in different parts of the world. Then there's (maybe due to globalisation) the whole issue about immigrants. Which has to be taken into account in today's politics in whatever topic is discussed. Also, I agree with everyone who says Marxism is good in theory but lacks a practical side, but that doesn't really make much of a discussion out of this thread.
I don't understand why this ideology is frowned upon in America. Prime example? Sarah Palin "accusing" Obama of having socialist ideas. So fucking what?
Yeah, it's fascinating, because those "leftist" ideas Obama has are basically the foundation of governments in Europe, for example Belgium. And we consider those ideas neutral or some of them even a little right wing. This just goes to show how conservative America or certainly the US government is.
Exactly. They are very conservative, something that few people recognize about America. In fact, there are a billion things I can talk about where conformity and America together are concerned. I mean, honestly Socialism has it's benefit, and to have socialist ideology is really not as bad as being so completely capitalist.
Considering those attacks didn't work, I think it's safe to assume people aren't frowning upon it that much.
Well it is sad to see so many people agreed. It is foolish to think that just because the Republicans got fewer votes their ideology died down.
As has been said before, I think there are some decent enough ideas, but the practicality is what would make them not plausible.
I think most of the negativity around socialism in the U.S. stems from a lack of understanding more than anything else. I think a lot of people still equate it to Stalinism, for the most part.
I don't mean to offend anyone but even in this thread people seem to be equating Marxism with general communism, even though there's much more to it than that. I'm not trying to sound like an expert or anything, I just happen to have been studying it besides the basic principles and political model.
Communism and Socialism go hand in hand with the Marxist ideology, therefore it's okay to discuss them here.
What I mean is that Marxism itself isn't just communism, and it isn't just a design for taking control of and running a state (for want of a better word).