Marxism

Discussion in 'Serious Chat' started by aki*lp, Nov 22, 2008.

  1. #1
    aki*lp

    aki*lp LPA Super Member LPA Super Member

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    What are your views on it?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism

    It's relatable, especially since Capitalism is such a pain in the ass usually.
    I'm not really a Neo-Marxist, since I find Max Weber's ideology more logical.

    Discuss.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2008
  2. #2
    esaul17

    esaul17 antichrist

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    The problem seems to be this:

    To start a communist government, you need a revolution
    In a revolution, you need a strong decisive leader
    With a strong decisive leader and a new government, you get a dictatorship
    With a dictatorship, you get corruption
    With corruption, you get just about every communist country we have seen
     
  3. #3
    Dean

    Dean LPA Addict LPA Addict

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    I think a lot of his sociological theories were actually pretty accurate. I don't necessarily agree with all of his views or his solutions for the problems he tended to cover though.
     
  4. #4
    Christopher

    Christopher Über Member Über Member

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    I think there's a huge problem when Socialism needs to evolve from Capitalism: I don't think the "workers" are class conscious enough right now.
    I don't think our form of Capitalism could ever be overthrown by the workers anyway, not even with a revolution because our government isn't nearly as corrupt as those governments revolutions have overthrown in history.

    There isn't a ruling class that employs the true working class anymore, the true working class is getting really small in Europe too, since all real labour happens in 3rd world countries or poor countries with laws that are less strict than ours.

    Marx didn't (and couldn't have) taken globalisation into account, basically. That's just one criticism...
     
  5. #5
    Dean

    Dean LPA Addict LPA Addict

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    I don't know if I'd say that the working class has been replaced completely though. All it really means is whoever's at the bottom of the pile, and there is still very much a native working class here, at least. It's just that a lot of factories are being moved abroad (not necessarily to third world countries). Office jobs are the new factory jobs. But you're right that he couldn't have taken globalisation into account as it wasn't really around then, definitely not on a big scale including lots of different industries.

    There is much more to Marxism than just revolutionary socialism though, I mean it incorporates a lot of beliefs that aren't necessarily concerned with that.
     
  6. #6
    Tim

    Tim My perversion power is accumulating LPA Super Member

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    There are some strong theories prevalent in Marxism that I do agree with, but I think it falls short on practical applications.
     
  7. #7
    Christopher

    Christopher Über Member Über Member

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    Yeah, of course, I agree. Although, I don't agree with working class meaning whoever's at the bottom of the pile. There are a lot of people who don't work in today's society and more importantly the government is really concerned about them, they are taken care off better than ever before.
    Even, if you'd include those in the working class, it wouldn't be likely for them to start a revolution. They might want to because they are at the bottom, but they'd sink a whole lot lower if the government was overthrown.

    I just think it's absurd to see capitalism as a negative factor towards "poor" people here. I think it's far worse for the people who are directly exploited by capitalist countries through dictarorships and so called democracy's in different parts of the world.

    Then there's (maybe due to globalisation) the whole issue about immigrants. Which has to be taken into account in today's politics in whatever topic is discussed.


    Also, I agree with everyone who says Marxism is good in theory but lacks a practical side, but that doesn't really make much of a discussion out of this thread.
     
  8. #8
    aki*lp

    aki*lp LPA Super Member LPA Super Member

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    What you said.
     
  9. #9
    Tim

    Tim My perversion power is accumulating LPA Super Member

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    Good point. :lol:
     
  10. #10
    Harlz

    Harlz More Scared Of You Than You Are Of Me LPA Super Member

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    It's great in theory, but human nature will never allow it to succeed. We're too greedy.
     
  11. #11
    aki*lp

    aki*lp LPA Super Member LPA Super Member

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    I don't understand why this ideology is frowned upon in America.


    Prime example?

    Sarah Palin "accusing" Obama of having socialist ideas.


    So fucking what?
     
  12. #12
    Christopher

    Christopher Über Member Über Member

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    Yeah, it's fascinating, because those "leftist" ideas Obama has are basically the foundation of governments in Europe, for example Belgium. And we consider those ideas neutral or some of them even a little right wing.

    This just goes to show how conservative America or certainly the US government is.
     
  13. #13
    aki*lp

    aki*lp LPA Super Member LPA Super Member

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    Exactly. They are very conservative, something that few people recognize about America.

    In fact, there are a billion things I can talk about where conformity and America together are concerned.


    I mean, honestly Socialism has it's benefit, and to have socialist ideology is really not as bad as being so completely capitalist.
     
  14. #14
    Tim

    Tim My perversion power is accumulating LPA Super Member

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    Considering those attacks didn't work, I think it's safe to assume people aren't frowning upon it that much.
     
  15. #15
    aki*lp

    aki*lp LPA Super Member LPA Super Member

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    Well it is sad to see so many people agreed. It is foolish to think that just because the Republicans got fewer votes their ideology died down.
     
  16. #16
    Will

    Will LPA Addicted VIP LPA Addicted VIP

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    As has been said before, I think there are some decent enough ideas, but the practicality is what would make them not plausible.
     
  17. #17
    Tim

    Tim My perversion power is accumulating LPA Super Member

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    I think most of the negativity around socialism in the U.S. stems from a lack of understanding more than anything else. I think a lot of people still equate it to Stalinism, for the most part.
     
  18. #18
    Dean

    Dean LPA Addict LPA Addict

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    I don't mean to offend anyone but even in this thread people seem to be equating Marxism with general communism, even though there's much more to it than that. I'm not trying to sound like an expert or anything, I just happen to have been studying it besides the basic principles and political model.
     
  19. #19
    aki*lp

    aki*lp LPA Super Member LPA Super Member

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    Communism and Socialism go hand in hand with the Marxist ideology, therefore it's okay to discuss them here.
     
  20. #20
    Dean

    Dean LPA Addict LPA Addict

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    What I mean is that Marxism itself isn't just communism, and it isn't just a design for taking control of and running a state (for want of a better word).
     

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