My journey

Discussion in 'Serious Chat' started by Zakrisk, Jun 27, 2006.

  1. #61
    The Doctor

    The Doctor I wear a fez now. Fez's are cool. LPA Super Member

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    If that's true, then the entire Bible should be too. Nowhere in Genesis does it say it's metaphorically written or anything. What's said is what was said. It's sad to see that people actually believe it.
     
  2. #62
    Zakrisk

    Zakrisk Smoke weed.

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    It's not sad, and the world wasn't created in a few days. It took billions of years for life to get started on earth and the rest of the galaxies to be created. The six days of creation in the Bible actually do become about 15 3/4 billion years (the approximate time scientists say the earth has been around).

    Genesis is not full of bullshit. Evolution of man has told us that there were species very closely related to humans before Adam and Eve, which are mentioned in the Bible. What creationists and evolutionists argue alot with is the fact that the Bible says it's impossible for evolution since it was only 6 days, and Adam and Eve were the first humans, when really there was actually a longer evolution taking place.

    Genesis is used metaphorically, and the whole Bible is alot of metaphors and symbology.

    I can explain how science goes along with Genesis if you want. I really will if you ask me. It annoys me some of the atheists ignore the facts while saying we are ignoring the facts, and, while a ton of us are, I do not ignore any of the facts. I am not trying to support Christianity. I am neutral looking for evidence for whichever, but the thing is through the scientific research I've done I find that Christianity is proven more and more valid. All of the atheist arguments start to look ridiculous.
     
  3. #63
    Dean

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    I only mentioned Genesis because it was the only part of the Bible that Todd referred to in his post. Yes, that is the case for other parts of the Bible as well, such as when Moses was said to have parted a body of water. The Bible is the word of God (that's the exact translation of the word 'Gospel'), not an account of what actually happened. It's up to people whether they take it literally or not.
    Not to mention that there are plenty of holes and presumptions in scientific theories that are widely accepted as true, such as continental drift and the Big Bang, and that's all coming from someone who normally takes a more scientific standpoint when it comes to debates like these. I'm willing to bet that you and Todd think Christians (and members of other religions) are 'sad' for showing blind faith when society at large does so towards science as well.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2006
  4. #64
    The Doctor

    The Doctor I wear a fez now. Fez's are cool. LPA Super Member

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    Ahh, but see if it's "God's word," and God is supposed to be infallable, doesn't that mean that those were written in fact? If God can't be wrong, then it can't be a metaphor. See, this is my problem with organized religion. It's filled with such loopholes and errors and people still blindly follow it. I believe people shouldn't worship a singular deity, worship life, and the fact that you have it.
     
  5. #65
    Dean

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    Erm... no. You're basically saying it would be wrong for God to use metaphors, being an omnipotent being (presuming that He exists).
    Let's put this into perspective. If you were living around 2000 years ago, which would you find easier to grasp: the metaphors used in the Bible, or complex scientific theory?

    I seem to have edited my last post while you were posting. Go back and read the second paragraph.

    I do agree thoroughly with the last sentence, however.
     
  6. #66
    Zakrisk

    Zakrisk Smoke weed.

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    I think there is alot of blind following as in people not knowing all of the facts and not caring about the evidence all around them for things, but still following something. I don't know if there are lots of loopholes and errors, though. I'd like to see them, because I never have.

    EDIT: I started reading that Skeptic's Bible thing that Todd posted. Holy crap. I've never even realized this kind of stuff. I'm lovin' it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2006
  7. #67
    Todd

    Todd FLǕGGȦ∂NKđ€ČHIŒβǾLʃÊN LPA Administrator

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    That was 2,000 years ago, this is today. We have plenty of evidence supporting scientific theories that couldn't be found back then just because the technology didn't exist. Back then, the theory that our solar system was created by a huge explosion sounded insane and completely fucked up. Even more fucked up than the idea that some invisible man we can't hear or see waved his magic wand and created everything. Well, now it makes sense because we have telescopes and can see such explosions happening in other galaxies. When we see this sort of thing going on in hundreds of other galaxies, it only makes sense that the same happened here. Hell, back then, you could be executed for stating that the Earth is round and revolves around the Sun. Galileo spent the rest of his life under house arrest because he stated that the Earth isn't the center of the solar system. Do you really want to trust a group of people who executed astronomers for saying the world is round? The same group of people are also responsible for the bible. You really want to trust these people? Or, do you want to trust science, because thanks to science, we've flown airplanes around the world, we've sailed ships around the world, neither of which could be done on a flat Earth, and we've even sent humans to space so they could look back and say, "Yep, it's round, and it's going around the sun!" I know some of the fundamentalists may be upset by this, but science has earned my trust. Religion has not.
     
  8. #68
    Zakrisk

    Zakrisk Smoke weed.

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    It says the world is round in the Bible.
     
  9. #69
    Dean

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    The Bible was written around 2000 years ago and back then it would have been easier to understand it the way it was written. I was just pointing that out to Nate because of what he said about its use of metaphors. I didn't mean to say that I disagree with everything you've just posted, in fact I agree with it more than anything.
     
  10. #70
    Evil Angel

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    the bible is filled with shitloads of crap.i agree with todd.the bible was written by some humans who wanted to use it to make masses believe that they were the messengers of god.Those miracles are totally funny.modern science has clearly shown that those things are false.

    (But sometimes i do wish that someday water in my home turns into beer.i wouldn't mind that :lol:)
     
  11. #71
    Dean

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    *sigh* I'm just going to stay away from this thread from now on.
     
  12. #72
    Zakrisk

    Zakrisk Smoke weed.

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    Um...Okay.


    Actually, if the Bible was created by man I believe it was created to scare people. Not for them to believe they were the "messengers of god". It would have been used as a form of law.

    Seeing the sort of things God will do to you if you sin, back then, people would do what the Bible said out of fear.
     
  13. #73
    Evil Angel

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    do what out of fear???stone prostitutes to death?fuck your mom?treat homosexuals as untouchables?blow up jews and christians(non-believers) and expect a virgin to be ready to fuck you in heaven(mentioned in the Koran)?

    The bible is not only absurd and contradicts itself in many places but is also discriminatory towards women,animals,children(abraham was told to kill his son who was born after years of banging his wife.God probably felt like playing games with him).it is one of the cruelest books written on this planet(many parts of the bible and koran glorify violence)
     
  14. #74
    Zakrisk

    Zakrisk Smoke weed.

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    That's exactly what it was. If you were doing something bad, you could fear death. Like I said, a form of law. All of those things you just said back up my point.
     
  15. #75
    Methybrea

    Methybrea Well-Known Member

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    I think this quote from Tool's "Aenima" booklet would best suit this thread:

    "Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning
    A non-functioning mind is clinically dead
    Believe in NOTHING."

    w00t post 2,100!
     
  16. #76
    Zakrisk

    Zakrisk Smoke weed.

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    Is it even possible to not believe in something? Everyone believes in something, even if it has nothing to do with religion. Believing there is no God is believing, believing that Bush is a bad president is believing, believing a song is good is believing, isn't it? Isn't that all believing? Isn't alot of the stuff we do based around believing? Just like believing air is there? Or believing the moon landing really happened?
     
  17. #77
    Methybrea

    Methybrea Well-Known Member

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    The moral of the story is not to take anything for granted.

    Beliefs are based upon no facts or inquiries whatsoever
    Opinions are based on careful/uncareful scrutiny of the facts.

    If you BELIEVE that President Bush is a moron then you are just as wrong as someone who BELIEVES that he's the best president of all-time. Although I think that most people have beliefs and it is a very human thing to do I also think that if you think through everything carefully that you can minimize you're beliefs and have more opinions so you aren't blind to the truth.

    As for the moon, I don't "believe" that they landed on the moon....how could you know FOR SURE? But yes I think they did land on the moon as the whole thing was too big and too realistic to cover up and evidence would have surfaced by now if it never happened.

    So theres a fine line...I think :p
     
  18. #78
    Zakrisk

    Zakrisk Smoke weed.

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    Oh okay. So there's belief and opinion, which are two different things? And then your beliefs are things you blindly follow, and opinions are thought out more? So the fact that I can carefully look at the evidence for God, and if conclude that, in my opinion, God does exist, I don't believe in God, but that's my opinion?
     
  19. #79
    Methybrea

    Methybrea Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.

    If someone has found evidence I haven't to prove that God and everything existed, and they have an opinion on that then power to them...But I would say for the majority thats not the case.

    Humans, though, like to believe in something, a salvation if you will. They disillusion themselves to give them peace of mind and security. Maybe thats a good thing, I don't know. Although I'd say I'm fairly spiritual and do think there are spiritual elements to this world I don't believe in a hierarchy of religion that says the good go to paradise and the bad go to hell. Its a structure WAITING to be exploited.
     
  20. #80
    aki*lp

    aki*lp LPA Super Member LPA Super Member

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    Use a better word than crap please. If you don`t believe in it don`t make it sound so repulsive.

    Zakrisk, i think what you did was very good because you studied up on the believe instead of running away from it.
     

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